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capt.maddog

INSIGNIA,BOS,SCARF,BIB-TYPE

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The Army wanted us to look sharp. So at certain times we wore scarves. Fortunately we didn't have to wear them in Vietnam. Danny


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Forum Member #1691 since September 2007

Served in the US Army from 1960-80

First Sergeant (Retired)

Vietnam 1967 with 7-15th FA ~ [8"/175mm Gun] First Field Forces

Vietnam 1968 with 1-30th FA ~ [155mm] 1st Cavalry Division [AIRMOBILE]

President & Historian 30th FA Regiment Association ( WWW.HardChargers.Com )

Celebrating the 100th Anniversary of the 30th Field Artillery Regiment in 2018

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branch of service scarf. Normally in the branch color.. cammo was supposed to be used by SF.

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almost looks like a cooking apron

 

Just a bit too small for that use. The were worn around the neck under the uniform shirt (OG-107 fatigue or khaki). I wore a red one on Okinawa on special occasions or duty

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A interesting one, it's in the ERDL pattern, up till that point really the only ones one would see would be those leopard or frogskin camo scarfs, these were fairly common in the early to mid 60s, being worn by quite a few GIs how posed for portraits in fatiques, plus as mentioned among SF types as well as Airborne types.

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Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................

Johnny

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Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................

Johnny

 

Yes good eye Johnny, but on studying the photo it appears to be the standard 50s-60s frogskin/duck hunter scarf that Mitchell is wearing and not this ERDL type. Ascot, I think that was the 50s term for these, and or just another way of describing these by the the soldiers themselves, I,m sure all three names were used interchangeably in those days, Ascot, Scarf, Bib even with some probably calling it a Dickie. Not sure when these branch color and camouflage "scarfs' started to be U.S. Mil spec made though, you know with the GI nomemclature tags, maybe the late 50s early to mid 60s?

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Just saw that I listed the photo , under wrong catagory of the forum, it is in the Shoulder/sleeve patch section under "Uncommon Combat patches" ...................

Johnny

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according to the military specification for manufacturing the following Classes and colors were used:

 

Class 1 (Black) - Chaplains Corps, US Army

Class 2 (Bottle Green) - Special Forces and Psychological Gperations Units, US Army

Class 3 (Brick Red) - Transportation Units, US Army

Class 4 (Buff) - Supply, Quartermaster, Supply and Services, Supply and Transportation ard Support Units, US Army and Coast Guard

Class 5 (Cobalt Blue) - Chemical Units, US Army

Class 6 (Crimson) - Ordnance and Maintenance Uinits, US Army

Class 7 (Dark Blue) - National Guard Bureau and Judge Advocate General, Adjutant General, Inspector General Units, US Army and Coast Guard

Class 8 (Green) - Staff Specialist and Military Police Units, US Army

Class 9 (Light Blue) - Infantry Units, US Army

Class 10 (Maroon) - Medical Units, US Army

Class 11 (Old Gold) - Women‘s Army Corps

Class 12 (Orange) - Signal Units, US Army

Class 13 (Oriental Blue) - Military Intelligence Units, US Army

Class 14 (Purple) - Civil Affairs Units, US Army

Class 15 (Scarlet) - Engineers and Artillery Units, US Amy and Permanent Professors, USMA

Class 16 (Silver Gray) - Finance Units, US Army

Class 17 (Teal Blue) - Branch Unassigned, US Army

Class 18 (Ultramarine Blue) - US Air Force & Aviation-Units, US Army

Class 19 (Yellow) - Armor and Cavalry, Units, US Army
Class 20 (White) Security Police, US Air Force ard Coast Guard
Class 21 (Camouflage) - US Army and US Air Force

Mr. Jaroslav Jochman
3/6 Marines, King Co., Re-Enacted, 1943-1945;
USMC & USN REENACTORS ASSOCIATION
MARINE CORPS ASSOCIATION FOUNDATION MEMBER

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Great info in the above post usmccollector! Since this resurfaced I figured I should add an image of a few of these ascots that I have:

 

GEDC1242.jpg

 

These below are big, full scarves, not the snap back 'apron' style ascot. These are from Korea and the 40th ID SSI is sewn onto the center, if I remember. I do not think it's fully embroidered on.

 

GEDC1243.jpg

 

Rob


Exhausting & Dirty Work



Interested in buying identified or re-searchable Korean War uniforms, groupings, medals and more.

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You don't have the 40th Div one anymore? Are the one in the first photo 1950s-60s w/tags?

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You don't have the 40th Div one anymore? Are the one in the first photo 1950s-60s w/tags?

 

The ones in the first photo do not have tags, I believe they're 50s vintage. The Cavalry ascot was ID'd to a LTG who's name escapes me at the moment. That'll give a clue to the era. I still have the 40th ID scarves, they're just not with me right now. I remember something unusual about the patch, like it's not just an SSI sewn on. I could be mistaken.

 

I'll check on both the name and the 40th ID patch when I'm home again.

 

I also have these camo ascots that came in this group, ID'd to Maj. Shankle who served in Korea as a forward observer. These should date to the mid 50s.

 

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You can see there's one similar to the one in the group I posted made of 'chute material like the helmet cover, and then another 'frogskin' style.

 

Rob


Exhausting & Dirty Work



Interested in buying identified or re-searchable Korean War uniforms, groupings, medals and more.

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A superb grouping there Rob, West Point Graduation Book and All. This Major Shankle, we take it he was alot junior when he fought in Korea, correct?

 

While we have you. What class was he at the Point?

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He was a 2nd Lt when he received the Silver Star at the Battle of Skeleton hill in May of 1951. He graduated with the class of 1950 B)

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/163572-maj-j-f-shankle-silver-star-forward-observer-25th-id-korea/?hl=shankle

 

 

Rob


Exhausting & Dirty Work



Interested in buying identified or re-searchable Korean War uniforms, groupings, medals and more.

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This is the image I am most familiar with. Special Forces Captain Roger Donlon, first Medal of Honor recipient of the Vietnam War. The pattern is different as some of the earlier posts mentioned but it does show how they were worn.

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I've got some miniature US patches, eg 82nd Abn...US made, cut-edge but maybe just 1" x 1" ? I was told that such patches were made for sewing onto "ascots"...would that be the case?


"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!"

 

Winston Churchill

" Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans."

John Winston Lennon

 

 

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I've got some miniature US patches, eg 82nd Abn...US made, cut-edge but maybe just 1" x 1" ? I was told that such patches were made for sewing onto "ascots"...would that be the case?

Supposedly yes, they have these miniatures also in various unit crests, but I also am of the belief that while they can be used on the ascot/scarfs, that they also were depending on the size worn on the shoulder loops as alternative to metal DIs, a cloth DI as it were, the Divisional ones, a cloth form of a metal patch type crest.

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Heres Mel from 'We Were Soldiers'.His is blue but shouldn't it have been yellow for Cavalry? Also one of SSG Barry Sadler, Green Beret song.

 

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ASMIC #1098

 





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Nope by 1965 Blue Infantry Distinctives were worn in the 1st Cav Division, had been since the Blue Stuff First came out, though in the early period after the Blue Stuff came out some, whether as a unit or individualy wore Crossed Sabres rather then Crossed Rifles.

 

This from an earlier post.

 

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Here's the photo, I think this guys name is Abraham Lincoln, an Unknown unit of the 5th Cavalry in Japan 1956, we see the crossed sabres being worn with the Blue, not really sure who long this was affected, if it was confined only to the 5th Cavalry, or a specific unit within the 5th Cavalry, like a reach would be that Crossed Sabres may have been worn by the Regimental I&R Platoon in the Cavalry Regiments? As mention earlier the 1st Cavalry Division in the 50s early 60 contineud to display Cavarly Branch symbolisms, this might be a part of that, it is intresting though, the Cavarly ceased to be a seperate Branch , but as we have seen the Crossed Sabres without Tank continued to be seen being worn, usually by Officers, like all those Fatiques and Tropical Coats that crop up every so often, Officers most of the time Aviators, with cloth Crossed Sabre badges.

A nice candid photo.

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Here's another one I have, with the small SSI embroidered directly. This came along with Gen. Hodes' HBT shirt, but I do not think they're affiliated, other than he was CG of the 24th in Korea.

 

GEDC1240.jpg

 

 

Rob


Exhausting & Dirty Work



Interested in buying identified or re-searchable Korean War uniforms, groupings, medals and more.

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Weren't they also called an "ascot" there's anothe photo in the forum of a serviceman wearing one just like yours.under the Aviation Flight clothing section, Uncommon and Obscure Combat patches, first photo , ............................

 

Johnny is dead on, called an "ascot". I wore this exact version in the 82nd Abn in 1964 and again with SF in 65-67. There were various colors, ie: blue for infantry, red for arty etc. Most often an honor guard would wear a white one with the unit patch centered. The proper way to wear it was to roll it about three times so the stitching along the top didn't show and then tuck it under your fatique jacket or Class A uniform if in a parade.

Terry

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