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Uncommon and Obscure Combat Patches Being Worn.


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What Sub Unit is this? none wear CIB, so I'm sure it is not one of the Infantry Regiments of the 82nd, the helmet Marking will tell right? you can see the officer in the forground but the area where his BOS is is blurry, they are either Jump Qualified or Glider Qualified, so Arty or Eng?

I'm not sure which unit it is and can't find any reference to 82nd helmet markings from WWII.

 

The soldier wearing the 17th Airborne Division combat patch in the center and the soldier to his left wearing the 101st patch both appear to be wearing CIB's on their pocket flaps below their ribbons.

 

It is odd that a few but not all of the soldiers are wearing Distinguished Unit Citations. This suggests that they earned them while serving with other units and this particular unit did not receive one. I'm pretty sure all of the 82nd's infantry regiments and maybe the field artillery battalions all earned at least one DUC in WWII, so this is most likely a service unit.

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The helmet marking identifies this as the 504th PIR.

 

The parade was in Jan 1946. By then the 82nd's long-serving combat vets were largely GONE, back to civvie street. Even while still in Berlin (Aug-Dec 45) the lower ranks were populated by low-point men -- less than 24 months in service, unmarried and/or no children, no bonus points for days in combat or individual decorations (such as CIBs). Many NCOs were vets who had enlisted into the RA or at least signed on for active duty extensions.

 

More than one 82nd vet of the period told me that Gavin wanted no combat patches worn, in Berlin or later back at Bragg. Thus this picture is interesting in this exception. But it is also exceptional in that there is a regtl helmet marking.

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Thank's again John, is there a image of this marking? I,m not having any luck in finding one online, all I get is the Skull and Crossbones one.

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I would love to back in time and look at all of the uniform permutations and all those patches in action!

 

-Ski

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  • 2 weeks later...

If I remember correctly, wearing a Marine unit SSI-FWTS is authorized by the Army if the soldier was attached to a Marine unit at the time. However, Marine unit SSI-FWTS is not authorized for soldiers who were prior service combat Marines themselves. Why? I dont know.

 

Prior service Marines with an infantry MOS who were awarded the Combat Action Ribbon can apply to have their Combat Action Ribbon converted to a Combat Infantry Badge if they join the US Army after their stint in the Marines. This sets up a highly unusual situation where a soldier may be wearing a CIB but not be entitled to wear SSI on his right sleeve nor have a CSIB on their new ASU's. The presence of a Marine Good Conduct Medal or a Navy Sea Service ribbon would be a indicator that this is the case.

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If I remember correctly, wearing a Marine unit SSI-FWTS is authorized by the Army if the soldier was attached to a Marine unit at the time. However, Marine unit SSI-FWTS is not authorized for soldiers who were prior service combat Marines themselves. Why? I dont know.

 

Prior service Marines with an infantry MOS who were awarded the Combat Action Ribbon can apply to have their Combat Action Ribbon converted to a Combat Infantry Badge if they join the US Army after their stint in the Marines. This sets up a highly unusual situation where a soldier may be wearing a CIB but not be entitled to wear SSI on his right sleeve nor have a CSIB on their new ASU's. The presence of a Marine Good Conduct Medal or a Navy Sea Service ribbon would be a indicator that this is the case.

 

 

 

Not to say that they didn't do it. I met a soldier in Al Uied that was prior service USMC and wore his old unit combat patch on his ACU's.

 

-Ski

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Not to say that they didn't do it. I met a soldier in Al Uied that was prior service USMC and wore his old unit combat patch on his ACU's.

 

-Ski

 

 

You are right. Some former Marines do it outside of regulations. I would imagine there are some really interesting variations out there because of that, however, I would really like to see some FULL COLOR examples on dress uniforms. Since there are no "official" Marine SSI at all, I wonder if the Army maintains a list of approved subdued and full color examples of Marine SSI ???????? I have seen examples of subdued 1st and 2nd Marine Division, I and II MEF, and III MAW. But, I wonder if a former Marine ever tried to sneak in a MEU, regimental, battalion or squadron patch?

 

Anyone have an example of full color Marine SSI on a dress Army uniform- authorized or not?

 

 

Also - it looks as though the Army has closed the window for authorizing Marine SSI for soldiers who were attached to Marine units.......again:

http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/Uniform/docs/USMC_ALARACT_message_178-2010.pdf

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"Since there are no "official" Marine SSI at all, I wonder if the Army maintains a list of approved subdued and full color examples of Marine SSI ????????"

 

There are Approved full color and subdued examples of the SSI

 

TIOH Does list the USMC patches Authorized for wear

 

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Heraldry/ArmyDUISSICOA/ArmyHeraldryUnit.aspx?u=7114

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Thanks PATCHRAT. Exactly what I needed to know. Hopefully, someone will come up with some photos of both official and unofficial examples.

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Thanks PATCHRAT. Exactly what I needed to know. Hopefully, someone will come up with some photos of both official and unofficial examples.

 

Chet, I posted two, a early 60s 1st Marine Div guy serving in the Army in Khakis and a late 70s one in fatiques, there are examples of photos with USMC patches worn thoughtout this topic.

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Korean era photo of the 2nd Ranger Infantry Company scroll worn over the 7th Infantry Division SSI

 

Cool pic, I have not seen that one before. Thanks for posting it.

 

Matt

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Chet, I posted two, a early 60s 1st Marine Div guy serving in the Army in Khakis and a late 70s one in fatiques, there are examples of photos with USMC patches worn thoughtout this topic.

 

I guess I should have clarified as per my earlier post on the page: I'm hoping to see more examples of full color Marine unit SSI on dress uniforms in a color photo. That seems to be the hardest examples to find - for obvious reasons.

 

But, I did overlook the 1st MarDiv major in khakis. Thanks for the heads up!

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That was my first thought too, but notice there is no similar shine on the CIB patch above it even though both patches lay the exact same way on the uniform. It could simply be the angle or even different bases materials and thread used in the embroidery, perhaps one being cotton and the other synthetic, but it also looks like full color skill badges I have seen where the wearer attempted to subdue it by rubbing graphite or something similar on it.

 

I have seen such a mixing of full color and subdued skill badges on Vietnam jungle jackets, but to your point, such uniforms probably didn't get the same scrutiny as a stateside garrison uniform.

Here's one with full color cloth parachute badge with subdued CIB and tapes, circa 1968.

post-34986-0-61241600-1377762983.jpg

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Here's a great original picture of 4 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team Troopers holding a NICE liberated North Korean Flag

 

From left to right (187th Troopers): PVT Birnic Hendricks, CPL Alfred Monty, CPL Charles Hornsby and PVT Albert Alderman

 

Scan_zps8b946e65.jpg

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Here is a soldier wearing the 82nd Airborne SSI on both shoulders in Vietnam in 1969. At first I thought the negative may have been reversed but when you look at another picture of the same guy, the other guy is wearing the 82nd patch on their left sleeves to show their current assignment. The guy these pictures came from was in Vietnam from January through December 1969, so the pictures were taken sometime in that time frame, although most likely towards the end of his tour.

 

This is interesting to me for two reasons. First, I don't believe I have ever seen a double patched 82nd soldier in Vietnam. Unlike today, few if any soldiers in Vietnam wore their current assignment SSI as a combat patch during the same tour. Those that did wear combat patches typically only wore them to represent a previous tour. Some units such as the 101st Airborne and 1st Cavalry served in Vietnam long enough for a soldier in mid-1969 to be serving with the same unit on his second or third tour, in which case wearing the patch as both his current unit assignment and combat patch was not that unusual. But the 3rd Brigade 82nd Airborne had only been in Vietnam since February 1968, so few soldiers would have had the opportunity to serve separate tours with the 82nd.

 

It's possible he had also served with the 82nd in the Dominican Republic which was fairly common. But note that he is only an E-2 Private. Being that this was taken in 1969, we know he wasn't an E-3 PFC because he isn't wearing the PFC chevron with a rocker introduced in May 1968.

 

So that leads to three possible scenarios:

(1) He was wearing the 82nd as a combat patch during his current assignment with the unit;

(2) He deployed to Vietnam with the 82nd in February 1968 and like many of those who did so, was returned to the U.S. by August 1968 and then he wound up back with the 82nd on a second tour in mid-1969; or

(3) He had served previously with the 82nd in the Dominican Republic sometime in 1965 or 1966 but somehow managed to still be a Private in 1969.

post-1761-0-93038400-1377880887.jpg

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Speaking of Pfcs sean, check out the Pfc in your Rakassans photo, the one at the very right of the photo, he has quite a ribbon rack, and he seems to have three service stripes, plus two or more years of overseas service vis the four overseas bars

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Speaking of Pfcs sean, check out the Pfc in your Rakassans photo, the one at the very right of the photo, he has quite a ribbon rack, and he seems to have three service stripes, plus two or more years of overseas service vis the four overseas bars

Agreed, but I didn't post that picture.

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A patch that has been Ided as being the 725th Railway operating Battalion is worn on this Khaki shirt as a Combat Patch. This Tech Sgt is we see also a World War I veteran.

post-34986-0-30387800-1378442319.jpg

* Photo originally posted by member louie.

 

 

The 725th RW Bn patch.

post-34986-0-56382700-1378442406.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's hard to make out which, but this LTC of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment is wearing the SSI of either the 1st or 2nd Armored Division as a combat patch in 1979. It probably represents service with either the 1st or 2nd Squadron of the 1st Cavalry in Vietnam.

post-1761-0-42760500-1379557642.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

I imagine this one must be pretty rare as a combat patch....

 

Military Assistance Advisory Group, Taiwan:

 

33c6mms.jpg

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