Uncommon and Obscure Combat Patches Being Worn.

[patches]

Believe it or not Baron, I out of curiosity googled Lafayette Pool, and boy did I get bites

http://www.flamesofw...aspx?art_id=749

 

Check out Tank Aces

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces

 

Here's the Google search page on him.

 

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=sergeant+lafayette+pool&oq=sergeant+Lafayette+Pool+&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i30j0i5i30j0i8i30l2.1462.10185.1.13369.10.10.0.0.0.1.201.1693.0j8j2.10.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.6.hp.oi_QBkZoKxU&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.dmg&fp=e086204f65cfae40&biw=1280&bih=632

[Baron3-6]

I was actually researching him and came upon that picture and figured it'd be a good addition to this thread

 

The old tank gunnery training building at Ft Knox was named "Pool Hall" in his honor....I was always had a good chuckle driving by though....I mean it was the only Pool Hall without a billiard table I'd ever seen. During the 50's both he and Ernest R. Kouma (look him for a very intense tank MOH action from Korea) were both instructors at the Armor School, sounds like the soldiers got some excellent training. Kouma got a Dining Facility named after him, a pretty good one too.

[RedLegGI]

Believe it or not Baron, I out of curiosity googled Lafayette Pool, and boy did I get bites

http://www.flamesofw...aspx?art_id=749

 

Check out Tank Aces

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....of_aces_of_aces

 

Here's the Google search page on him.

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=632

 

Very interesting read, I had never heard of him prior to this.

[Nkomo]

Here is one you dont see too often. 2nd Infantry Division with 1st MARDIV combat patch.

 

As far as the 1st MARDIV patch on the right sleeve, these were authorized as combat patches for US Army units who were attached to US Marine units. The 2nd Infantry was attached to the USMC during their 2004/2005 deployment to Iraq.

 

Here is a little history of the 2nd ID in Iraq:

 

From November 2003 to November 2004, the 3rd Brigade Stryker Brigade Combat Team deployed from Fort Lewis, Washington in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In the sands of Iraq the 3rd Brigade Stryker Brigade Combat Team proved the value of the Stryker Brigade concept in combat and logistics operations.

 

In August 2004, the 2nd Brigade Combat Team deployed to Iraq where they worked side by side with the Republic of Korea Army; just as it had while stationed in Korea. This deployment was unique in that it was the first operational deployment from the Republic of Korea.

 

In Iraq, the 2nd BCT was given strategic command to much of the sparsely populated area South and West of Fallujah. Their mission, however, changed when the major strategic actions began to take place within the city of Fallujah. The 2nd BCT was refocused and given control of the eastern half of the volatile city of Ar-Ramadi. For this mission, the Brigade fell under the direct command of the 1st Marine Division and for the second half of the deployment they were attached to the 2nd Marine Division. This command structure was ironic in that during World War I the 5th Marine Regiment and the 6th Marine Regiment of the 1st Marine Division had fought under the US Army's 2nd Infantry Division.

 

The 2BCT fought in the Fallujah offensive in November 2004 and provided Iraqis the opportunity to vote in the historic national elections of January 2005. They spent the past year helping the citizens of Iraq build a secure future by battling the insurgency and establishing more favorable conditions for the emerging democratic Iraqi government. The 2BCT also trained and partnered with thousands of Iraqi Security Force soldiers, enabling them to better secure their country. Additionally, the 2BCT provided humanitarian relief to hundreds of displaced civilians, schools, hospitals, and the underprivileged across its area of operations. In August 2005, the 2BCT redeployed from Iraq to its new home at Fort Carson, Colorado.

[Nkomo]

Close up of the 1st MARDIV patch.

[seanmc1114]

Here is one you dont see too often. 2nd Infantry Division with 1st MARDIV combat patch.

 

As far as the 1st MARDIV patch on the right sleeve, these were authorized as combat patches for US Army units who were attached to US Marine units. The 2nd Infantry was attached to the USMC during their 2004/2005 deployment to Iraq.

I have heard about the wearing of the 1st and 2nd Marine Division SSI as combat patches but always thought they were only authorized for small Army support units (battalions, companies or detachments) without their own SSI that were attached to the two Marine divisions. Why would units organic to an Army division with its own SSI (1) be authorized to wear the divisional SSI not only of a different unit but one from an entirely different branch of service whose own members are not authorized to wear that SSI, and (2) why would any member of the 2nd Infantry Division ever choose to do so or is the wear mandatory?

[RedLegGI]

Why would units organic to an Army division with its own SSI (1) be authorized to wear the divisional SSI not only of a different unit but one from an entirely different branch of service whose own members are not authorized to wear that SSI,

 

and (2) why would any member of the 2nd Infantry Division ever choose to do so or is the wear mandatory?

 

 

 

1. They fell under their command during their time in Iraq. As they were subordinates the upper echelon's combat patch (until recently) would be an authorized wear.

 

2. If you earn that combat patch and are authorized to wear it why not? If I had that option, I'd wear it and go "No, I wasn't a Marine, they just needed our help" . As for being mandatory no one can make you wear your combat patch, its personal choice just like any of your school badges. They tried to tell our guys in Iraq who had been on other deployments they HAD to wear the 25th ID patch to which they said show me the reg.

[Nkomo]

I have heard about the wearing of the 1st and 2nd Marine Division SSI as combat patches but always thought they were only authorized for small Army support units (battalions, companies or detachments) without their own SSI that were attached to the two Marine divisions. Why would units organic to an Army division with its own SSI (1) be authorized to wear the divisional SSI not only of a different unit but one from an entirely different branch of service whose own members are not authorized to wear that SSI, and (2) why would any member of the 2nd Infantry Division ever choose to do so or is the wear mandatory?

From what I understand, it was authorized for wear, but was up to the individual soldier to decide.

 

Here is a 2004 article detailing the wear of the 1st MARDIV patch for a specefic Army unit.

 

CAMP BLUE DIAMOND, Iraq(July 9, 2004) -- Soldiers with Company A, 9th Psychological Operations Battalion (Airborne) received 1st Marine Division patches during a ceremony held here July 9.

 

Brig. Gen. John F. Kelly, assistant division commander, was on hand to congratulate each of the 25 soldiers.

 

According to Army regulations, soldiers who serve in a combat environment for at least 30 days are authorized to wear the insignia of the unit they support. The patch is worn on the right shoulder. Officially the patches are called "shoulder sleeve insignia indicating former wartime service," but they're more commonly known as combat patches.

 

"Since last year during the war, every Army unit that has been assigned to the 1st Marine Division has asked if I would support their wearing our patch," the general explained.

 

Kelly said the patch is important to the soldiers because it signifies that they've been to war.

 

"In the Army, soldiers wear a lot of different patches for the schools they've been to and the things they've done," he added. "They wear the patch of the unit they are assigned to on the left arm. It's unique if they have a unit patch on the right arm."

 

That's why Army Maj. Hugh R. Sutherland, Company A commander, asked the general for patches for his soldiers.

 

"It's an Army tradition," explained Sutherland. "When you've been to combat, you wear that insignia for the rest of your career. It lets people know that you've seen the horrors of combat."

 

The Huntsville, Ala., soldier said when he first arrived to Iraq, he thought his unit would be supporting the Army's 4th Infantry Division. After he learned he'd be working with the 1st Marine Division, he was not upset.

 

"My father was with 4th Infantry Division, so I thought it would be nice to wear the same patch, but my grandfather fought with 1st Marine Division during World War II in Guadalcanal as a Navy corpsman," he said. "Now I get to wear the same patch he wore."

 

Since arriving here in February, Company A has supported the "Blue Diamond" division's security and stabilization mission here.

 

According to Army Spc. Wilfredo Sotomayor, the goal of the unit is to work hand-in-hand with the Marines to "win over the general mood of the Iraqi people."

 

"I've worked with the Air Force in the past, but I never thought I'd be working with Marines," Sotomayor added. "It's been a really good learning experience."

 

Sotomayor, of Brooklyn, N.Y., said he's enjoyed working with his Marine counterparts and was happy to receive a 1st Marine Division patch.

 

"It's very cool that we actually got the patches here. It would be difficult to have them made back in the United States," he said. "This will identify us as having worked with the 1st Marine Division in a hostile environment."

 

Kelly said he is pleased that the soldiers want to wear the division's patch.

 

"It's an honor for us as well," the general said. "It's really nice that they want to wear our patch. It means they are proud to serve with Marines."

[hink441]

I always thought these US Army DCUs with a USMC SSI are interesting. I think it is very ironic that even the USMC is not authorized to wear the SSI, but the US Army is authorized. Quite a study in the differences and contrasts between the services.

[Nkomo]

I knew this had been discussed before and I found the threads. Post number four on the first link explains it pretty well.

 

I will also add, that there are also examples of the 2nd MARDIV patch being worn as a combat patch on Army uniforms as well.

 

Link: http://www.usmilitar...atch#entry34449

 

Link: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1237

[seanmc1114]

Army Material Command being worn as a combat patch. This screen shot came from a 1978 Army recruiting commercial. I assume the soldier earned it in Vietnam but I'm not sure what units would have worn it. Any ideas?

[patches]

That Army Material Command worn as a combat patch for Vietnam service is a very important find there Sean, good going.

[quack]

Believe it or not Baron, I out of curiosity googled Lafayette Pool, and boy did I get bites

http://www.flamesofw...aspx?art_id=749

 

Check out Tank Aces

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....of_aces_of_aces

 

Here's the Google search page on him.

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=632

 

Interestingly, there is a Sherman named "In The Mood" on display at the American Air Base at Chievres, Belgium.

[vostoktrading]

I always thought these US Army DCUs with a USMC SSI are interesting. I think it is very ironic that even the USMC is not authorized to wear the SSI, but the US Army is authorized. Quite a study in the differences and contrasts between the services.

I clearly remember when I worked for Doug Boyer at the Military Shop of Hawaii in the early 1980's being surprised at seeing a 25th Infantry Division soldier in the shop in his class A's with a 1st Marine Division patch. A retired Army W4 who also worked in the shop said sure, he probably saw service in VN and why wouldn't you be proud of your service with another unit, even with "those Marines".

[patches]

I clearly remember when I worked for Doug Boyer at the Military Shop of Hawaii in the early 1980's being surprised at seeing a 25th Infantry Division soldier in the shop in his class A's with a 1st Marine Division patch. A retired Army W4 who also worked in the shop said sure, he probably saw service in VN and why wouldn't you be proud of your service with another unit, even with "those Marines".

 

As mentioned in the Army of the 50s though the 80s, Marine patches could and were seen as combat patches on those guys who reenlisted in the Army, this would include for WWII, Korea, and the later Vietnam War. I personaly seen one, a 3rd Mar Div, it was a HQs guy from the HHC 4/9th Inf , I seen him around the main Battalion mess hall ( it was located in the HQ-E Co Barracks), seen this guy, a E-6 for many months on and off.

 

On the other hand the very first Platoon Sergeant I had when I got up to Alaska was a Marine Corps Combat Vietnam Vet, I think in the 1st Mar Div (he was with us for two more months or so till he transferd over to be the Aerial Rifle Platoon Sergeant in E Troop 1st Cav). He choose not to wear his Marine Division patch, as odd as it sounds his fatique had this "Unadorned" appearance, like a Pvts, only tapes and his SFC subdued Rank Pins, something I was really unaccustomed to seeing so far in a SFC E-7 type you know. On the one occasion I seen him in his Class A uniform, the payday for end of July begining of August 1981, THEN one knew this guy was a vet, he had a decent mess of Fruit Salad, BS/W V device, NCOM/W V device, PH, CAR, USMC Good Conduct /W multiple Stars et all, but again no Marine unit combat patch

[Uniforms of the Day]

This young fella is wearing a 952nd Tank Battalion tab over his Armor patch. He also wears paratrooper wings and has the older style (WWI tank in profile) collar disks.

[Baron3-6]

This young fella is wearing a 952nd Tank Battalion tab over his Armor patch. He also wears paratrooper wings and has the older style (WWI tank in profile) collar disks.

In Stanton's WWII Order of Battle there is no 952nd Tank Bn listed (highest is 812th)....not saying thats incorrect, it may be an oversight in the book.

I have always heard there was at least one armored unit (co or bn) that was trained as airborne for the invasion of Japan and disbanded at the end of the war without seeing action. How much truth there is in that I do not know, might be an old collectors tale to look for armor patches with airborne tabs on uniforms. If anyone knows more, please chime in.

[firefighter]

I think it's the 752nd Tank Bn.

 

[patches]

Great finds sean, I'm loving it, if I only had the means to scan photos I have in my many books and magazines I could contribute at least four to five of these seldom seen units as combat patches. On this X Corps vet above it is well known that during the Korean War, for whatever reason the CO General Edward Ned Almond mandated that the X Corps patch be sewn and worn with it's White portion on top, after he left Korea the habit persisted.

 

Here at least one topic that shows the reversed X Corps patch on a uniform , also there are quite a few photos in Stanton's Uniforms of the Korean War where we see X Corps reveresed.

 

http://www.usmilitar...wn-water-shirt/

 

Another example of the X Corps patch for Korean War service as a combat patch being worn White portion on the top, from a Army Periodical circa 1962.

[ASMIC2971]

I have heard about the wearing of the 1st and 2nd Marine Division SSI as combat patches but always thought they were only authorized for small Army support units (battalions, companies or detachments) without their own SSI that were attached to the two Marine divisions. Why would units organic to an Army division with its own SSI (1) be authorized to wear the divisional SSI not only of a different unit but one from an entirely different branch of service whose own members are not authorized to wear that SSI, and (2) why would any member of the 2nd Infantry Division ever choose to do so or is the wear mandatory?

 

Per AR 670-1 the wear of FWTS-SSI is an individual option, one guy in my platoon took alot of flak for not wearing his Red Bull combat patch our entire deployment (2011-2012). Basically the regulations state the current unit must be worn on the left side sleeve, anything else is soldier option to wear any patch they recieved official orders for as far as prior service.

 

Also members of the 1st Brigade Combat Team 34th Infantry Division who were deployed for 16 months to Iraq during OIF 6-8 (longest consecutive deployment of any unit in Iraq) are authorized to wear 1st MARDIV, 2nd MARDIV, 1st MEF and 2nd MEF, MEF stands for Marine Expeditionary Force, depending on who they were attached to.

 

One thing I have not seen during my five years and change in the 34th ID is seeing a full Color Marine Corp patch being worn on the class A uniform, nor have I seen a CSIB on a set of ASU's. Most of the individuals I have noticed who wear a USMC patch on the right side are senior specialists or NCO's.

[seanmc1114]

The Philippine Division being worn by a Lietenant Colonel, sure wish the officer in the photo was mentioned, he was not, taken from the Army Info Digest of October 1963.

With all of those overseas bars, I'll bet he was a POW. It never ceases to amaze me how often I have seen photos or references to soldiers who were taken prisoner, particularly those taken in the Philippines by the Japanese, and spent months in captivity who chose to remain in the military for years after their release.

[J_Andrews]

I knew a LTC who wore 17 overseas bars. He was a Japanese American who first was steward in the USN, then when discharged joined the Army in Manila, as an officers' mess NCO mgr (Sgt). He was on Bataan, but exfiltrated with a few other GIS and Filipinos and hid out for a few months. He used his Japanese language skills while exfiltrating and later got enemy uniforms to use on forays into the villages (mostly looking for food and any other American stragglers or Filipinos willing to resist. He was eventually taken out to Australia by submarine, made a MSgt at the Allied Intell Bureau, etc. (BTW he took jump training and the training course at the Alamo Scouts Center, but was not "inserted behind enemy lines".) He returned to the Philippines on MacArthur's G-2 staff and stayed with MacArthur until he was relieved and retired in 1951. From 1941 to 1951, he had been Stateside only for training. By teh Korean War he was an officer.

[patches]

With all of those overseas bars, I'll bet he was a POW. It never ceases to amaze me how often I have seen photos or references to soldiers who were taken prisoner, particularly those taken in the Philippines by the Japanese, and spent months in captivity who chose to remain in the military for years after their release.

 

 

Yes indeed, here are two notable former Phllippine Division POWs of Vietnam era.

 

Harold K Johnson Chief of Staff of the Army.

 

Johm M Wright JR Assistant Division Commander 1st Air Cavalry Division 1965-66 later Commander in 1969-70 of the 101st Airborne Division ( Airmobile)

It was Wright who came up with the idea of cutting a hugh high grass field down at An Khe for a Chopper field, he started the work by himself with a machete, cutting a significant area of the high grass down to a fine lawn to show it could be done. It was said his patience and determination in this manual labor was aquired from the years he was a POW of the Japs. This area soon was called the Golf Course, the famous airfield at An Khe for the 1st Cav Div's vast armada of Choppers.

[seanmc1114]

5th Regimental Combat Team

[J_Andrews]

Re Post #174: Any info on NIX? I have a friend who was in the 5th RCT in Korea and was recently telling me that there have not been any more reunions since 2005.