B-17Guy Posted January 21, 2013 Share #26 Posted January 21, 2013 Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted January 21, 2013 Share #27 Posted January 21, 2013 Josh, that is something I run into from time to time. Wings which have that Orber feel but are absent the actual moniker mark. It would be an amazing find to have the Orber records of WWII strikes to give clarity to the "near" misses to the standard patterns. Thank you so much for these beauts...that second wing is a really unique variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted January 23, 2013 Share #28 Posted January 23, 2013 I am surprised no one has posted a gunner wing. How about an Orber-made jump wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted January 23, 2013 Share #29 Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks Patrick! I had no idea Order made Jump Wings. When looking at the open bodied pin catch in these 2 Orbers and the lower pilot wing in the 23rd post, it lends itself to an additional factor supporting an Orber Wing classification to the STERLING marked Wing in addition to the OBVIOUS reasons we would lean toward Orber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 25, 2013 Share #30 Posted January 25, 2013 Full size Air Crew wing with smaller circular Orber hallmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 25, 2013 Share #31 Posted January 25, 2013 Reverse view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 25, 2013 Share #32 Posted January 25, 2013 Close up of the smaller Orber hallmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 25, 2013 Share #33 Posted January 25, 2013 Full size Senior Pilot by Orber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 25, 2013 Share #34 Posted January 25, 2013 Back of the Senior Pilot badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted January 25, 2013 Share #35 Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks Again Russ...A BEAUTIFUL Senior Pilot 3 Inch by Orber ....and RARE. This is a unique variant find as well, the 2 inch maker's mark of STERLING SILVER in a ring, on a 3 inch...outstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty On Posted February 6, 2015 Share #36 Posted February 6, 2015 This aerial gunner wing came off a uniform group that I got at an estate sale today (more on the group later). It appears to be an Orber wing but am unsure as the hallmark is not present but I'm guessing the type has just been covered up by solder? The wing also looks like a two piece construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted February 6, 2015 Share #37 Posted February 6, 2015 Yep a very nice Orber gunner. You'll find the vast majority of Orber wings have the mark obliterated like that. I'm pretty sure I read on the forum that when a company was given a government contract they could no longer put their hallmark on the wings. Then again I could be completely wrong if someone wants to correct me. I recognize this wing from an estate sale listing and really hope you'll post more of this air man's group! Did you pick up the uniform and medals as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty On Posted February 6, 2015 Share #38 Posted February 6, 2015 Yes, there's a lot more to this group that I will be posting soon. I found a lot of info regarding the plane he flew in as well earlier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted February 6, 2015 Share #39 Posted February 6, 2015 That's awesome! Congrats and can't wait to see the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted February 6, 2015 Share #40 Posted February 6, 2015 Strictly speaking, its not an Orber wing, since Orber either went out of business or sold their dies to another company which made this wing (thus the reason why the Orber hallmark is defaced). On the other hand, they are from Orber-made dies. I know it is a quibble, and hair splitting but they you are. MG is correct, the Government contracts for wings indicated that the wings were to be clutch back, sterling silver and have no hallmarks. But a lot of companies made wings for sale outside of Government contracts. It is my understanding is that the reason Orber hallmarks are defaced is that another (unknown) company got the dies from Orber. In any case it is a very nice wing. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted February 8, 2015 Share #41 Posted February 8, 2015 I didn't know about the government contract requiring clutchbacks or the Orber dies being sold. Learn something new on this forum everyday! Thanks Patrick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted February 8, 2015 Share #42 Posted February 8, 2015 Yes, the government contracts for wings were pretty well laid out (If you look around, you may actually find a reference showing the original drawing some place) including that they were to be sterling silver and clutch back. Also, I guess to avoid giving the impression of government approval for individual companies, the insignia weren't to have company hallmarks (although some seem to have in fact been so marked). You almost never find a WWII vintage USAAF wings that are marked ORBER, although they do show up rarely. The vast majority have the defaced hallmark, which makes me suspect that Orber got out of the wing making business early in the war and sold the dies to another company that continued making these wings. There are also some pre-war Orber marked wings, but those are so heavily faked it is really hard to know what one is looking at, if it is a good or bad one. You also see the Orber pattern (without hallmark) that I suspect may have been made in the 50's. These tend to be Rhodium or Chromium plated wings. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted February 8, 2015 Share #43 Posted February 8, 2015 Here is a good link to Orber made wings http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/165641-orber-wings-i-will-start-with-liaison-feel-free-to-add-yours/ I'm not sure when or if Orber actually went out of business. There seems to be a current listing for an Orber Mfg Co in Rhode Island, but not sure if that is the same as the WWII version of this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 23, 2015 Share #44 Posted June 23, 2015 Recently, I have been looking for a few bullion wings as I am constructing a bullion and theater made wing case that I am going to get my nephew to help me with so our family has a young man to carry on the legacy of historical appreciation, respect and stewardship of aviation history.As I was endeavoring upon this quest I ran across a wing that I really appreciate and its design is something that strikes my aesthetic at all the points of enjoyment. That wing is the Orber Senior Pilot Wing. There was a confusing aspect of this wing that threw me off at first but not far enough to prevent me from purchasing and doing the comparison research to understand what I was seeing. Orber uses a particular star which is smaller than the typical star superimposed upon senior pilot wings of various types as well as the command pilot wings. I noticed immediately that the star was a typical of the larger starred badges and so fit the Orber prototype. The problem that I had was the fact that the braze used to append the star upon the shield was copious to the point where it looked like the individual who attached the star had used a little too much. Don't get me wrong, the star was perfectly centered but the braze was quite evident.I immediately got in touch with Rustywings as his collection spans a vast array of wings and wing types in the World War I and World War II areas so I thought we could use our badges as comparison points to see if the extra and not too tidy application of the braze was consistent across wings as well as the smaller star, along with a finely centered positioning of the star.Rustywings was kind enough to respond to me, as he had one of these quite scarce wings in his collection. I did not mention to him my questions about the amount of braze used and its relative untidiness in application. What I noticed immediately in the email that he sent me was the fact that he mentioned THE UNTIDY AND COPIOUS NATURE OF APPLICATION OF THE BRAZE ON HIS WING!!After viewing both wings, I had what I needed as far as identifying 2 variables to look for in 2 helpful pieces of the puzzle in proper ID of good Orber Sr Pilot Wings. It's not perfect by these 2 variables alone and one must be discerning of course, but if you see a perfectly centered star with these 2 elements additionally, on an set of wings your experience determines meets the criteria for an Orber badge, you are likely looking at a good Senior Pilot Wing from Orber. First, one must look for a smaller than average star atop the escutcheon and 2nd, one be ready for a possibly copious amount of braze to have been used in a less than perfect application.Below are pictures first of my wing and 2nd Rustywings' Wing. Note the 3 variables alluded to including the centering of the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 23, 2015 Share #45 Posted June 23, 2015 REAR OF MY WING.... Notice on the Dexter (Right) point of the star attached to the escutcheon, how the braze climbs up the rear of the star point a little bit... Then look below at the rear of Rustywings' badge at the Dexter rear of the star... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 23, 2015 Share #46 Posted June 23, 2015 Rustywings' Badge...Front... Notice the excellent centering and the clear presence of the braze .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 23, 2015 Share #47 Posted June 23, 2015 Rear of Rustywings' badge... Notice the Braze on the Dexter side..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 23, 2015 Share #48 Posted June 23, 2015 By the Way....I cannot EDIT the first post now but wanted to correct a typo my speech to text APP made in the word "ATYPICAL" (NOT typical)...the speech program put "a typical". Here is the sentence as it is supposed to be... I noticed immediately that the star was ATYPICAL of the larger starred badges (SMALLER THAN), and so fit the Orber prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 24, 2015 Share #49 Posted June 24, 2015 I just got the wing in hand and it is Beautiful, The Star a perfect match to the small Orber star design and a perfect match in tone and aesthetic design characteristics to the wing, a beautiful creation. I discovered another characteristic of the Orber placement of the star on their original senior pilot wings. As I looked through magnification, I saw that, just like rustywings' badge, the star is meticulously set parallel to the rear of the top of the shield. The star is absolutely flush with the top rear of the shield with a very notable precision. So in identifying and Orber senior pilot wing from the factory, there are 3 variables one needs to take into account. 1) The Star should be quite small compared to other stars used by various 1930s and 1940s manufacturers, the silver tone of the star will precisely, and undeniably match the silver tone of the badge and the star. Now that I have the badge in hand, it is uncanny how well all fits together as one spectacular set of wings. 2) The Star should be precisely centered and absolutely flush and parallel to the rear of the top of the shield. 3) Orber, because the star is smaller, seems to use more braze to apply the star to the shield than average. It can look a little untidy. I think this may be exacerbated by the small size of the Orber star but it is something to keep in mind. I will get some pictures taken and add them to the thread because the pictures above were simply sales pictures of my wing. Let me clean it up as the pilot would have it, and present it to you gentlemen. To have a star specifically designed as a variant from the vast array of other stars specific to insignia of the day, along with the scarcity of the badge, makes the Orber wing a special find for me. This special identity applies to both the senior pilot and if anyone cares to post it, the wing commensurate to the senior pilot wing in its very unique and absolutely stunning presentation, the Orber Command Pilot Wing. Thanks for your time and I hope this helps somebody in the future to rightly identify this very scarce and very aesthetically unique and beautifully designed set of Senior Pilot Wings designed by the Orber company. Blessings in your collecting as always gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted June 25, 2015 Share #50 Posted June 25, 2015 My New Orber Sr Pilot Wing after cleaning, an excellent example of an undeniably unique wing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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