Jump to content

Why Spoils of War?


Bob Hudson
 Share

Recommended Posts

I often buy groupings from families who respond to my newspaper ads. Frequently the veteran's effects include German and Japanese items the vet brought home from the war: it can range from a couple of small pieces of insignia to a large box full of flags. banners and what-have-you.

 

The question almost always asked by the family is, "Why did he bring that stuff home?"

 

My answer is, "Because we won! Had we lost, the other guys would have been taking our stuff home as souvenirs, but luckily we got the spoils of war, we got to take their flag, not the other way around"

 

Trophies from a vanquished enemy have probably been coveted by warriors since cavemen went after each other with rocks and sticks. By WWII the practice was a bit more civilized than past practices of putting your enemy's head on a pike, or tying his scalp or ears to your belt (although a couple of skulls made it home from the Pacific War according to some accounts).

 

WWII war correspondent Ernie Pyle is said to have written

 

"The British fight for their homes, the Germans fight for glory and the Americans fight for souvenirs."

 

In 1943 Pyle reported that American GI's were gathering the spoils of battle, long before the war had been won:

 

"NORTHERN TUNISIA, May 8, 1943 – Before the first day of the great surrender on the Bizerte-Tunis front was over, I believe half the Americans in the area had German souvenirs of some sort.

 

There was very little of what one would call looting of German supply dumps. The Germans gave away helmets, goggles and map cases, which they will not be needing anymore. The spoils of war which the average doughboy has on him are legitimate, and little enough recompense for his fighting.

 

Practically every American truck has a German or Italian helmet fastened to its radiator. Our motorcycles are decorated like a carnival, with French flags and the colorful little black-and-yellow death’s-head pennants the Germans use for marking their own mine fields.

Many soldiers have new Lugers in their holsters. Lots of our men clowningly wear German field caps. German goggles are frequently seen on American heads. I got in on the souvenirs, too. I got one memento that is a little gem. It’s an automobile – yep, a real automobile that runs."

 

As Pyle says, these souvenirs were little compensation for the hardships suffered by American warriors, but they must have meant a lot at the moment as the Americans lorded over their conquered enemy. who sat by the side of the road, under guard, stripped of their weapons, helmets, flags and other accoutrements of war.

 

When GI's shipped these souvenirs home, they were not seen as symbols of a mighty Third Reich or an Imperial Emperor - they were prizes extracted from the losers, extracted through tough battles and brutal campaigns.

 

Over the decades these spoils of war have come to be seen, as more than one veteran's family has put to me, as "that yucky German stuff," or words to that effect, but I think the vet, were he still around, might have wanted to read them Ernie Pyle's words, "The spoils of war which the average doughboy has on him are legitimate, and little enough recompense for his fighting."

 

This forum section is not to honor the losers, it's to celebrate the winners and their hard-earned totems of war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

War trophies are such a part of US military tradition that the Army gathered teams of lawyers to create an official war trophy policy.

 

Here's an excerpt from it, (you can download it all in a PDF - War-Trophies.pdf )

 

wartrophies.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a soldier's right to loot his enemy. This was actively encouraged in the British Army and Royal Navy in the Napoleonic wars.

In basic training we were told we could strip the dead of everything bar wedding rings. My uncle came back from the Falklands war with a heap of gear.

 

Rich

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a soldier's right to loot his enemy. This was actively encouraged in the British Army and Royal Navy in the Napoleonic wars.

 

 

Read the thread about the Japanese battleship Nagato: the US Navy did the same sort of encouraging in 1945 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/165604-japanese-group-from-the-nagato/#entry1255818

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
Patchcollector

It's a soldier's right to loot his enemy. This was actively encouraged in the British Army and Royal Navy in the Napoleonic wars.

In basic training we were told we could strip the dead of everything bar wedding rings. My uncle came back from the Falklands war with a heap of gear.

 

Rich

 

Yes,to the Conquerer goes the spoils.But I would stop at anything personal that may mean something to the dead fellows' family,such as,but not limited to,photos,journals,or diaries,or anything of that nature.Unless it had some intel value,and could be useful in that way,I would leave the things I mentioned in the hopes that they may make it back to his loved ones.

Some may disagree.That's just me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
ww2relichunter

Very interesting story and back ground my friend ,,an uncle of mine brought back an Italian 1930s cavalry rifle as his souvenir and i still have it today it just one thing that is like some compesation he felt for what he did and it like a reminder of a positive action he did !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob, Great piece and insight. Although I had the opportunity to bring back many items from VN, I only brought back a few. In retrospect, I did not bring back what would be most "valuable" to collectors today, but I did bring back several items that were very personal to me at the time and remain so today. I can assure all, that no one in my unit picked up anything to keep with a vindictive attitude, but simply a keepsake from a very emotional moment. I am in no way attempting to speak for anyone else but myself and the other grunts I was with at the time. Indeed most items were quickly passed back for possible intel evaluation. Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

My grandfather brought back a Luger from the war. It was always displayed prominently in a social place in the household. It was his only war trophy and though he obviously took great pride in it, he would not talk about its origins until just a few years before his death, and I'm not sure I buy the story. But it was all I was left with.

 

He was town clearing in France when he came upon a german officer outside a building. Both soldiers pulled their side arms and let off all the rounds at each other. Miraculously no one was hit and with empty clips they threw their guns at each other. Each picked up the others gun and quickly went on their way.

 

Not sure if I totally buy the story, but I like it none the less. Just thought I would share.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Luger parted ways with the family after my grandfathers death. His wife did not take kindly to our side of the family and ensured we saw none of his things after his death. I only have a few bits of his history that were personally past on from him to me. It is a crying shame but there is nothing I can do about it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
ReverendJake

My grandfather brought back a Luger from the war. It was always displayed prominently in a social place in the household. It was his only war trophy and though he obviously took great pride in it, he would not talk about its origins until just a few years before his death, and I'm not sure I buy the story. But it was all I was left with.

 

He was town clearing in France when he came upon a german officer outside a building. Both soldiers pulled their side arms and let off all the rounds at each other. Miraculously no one was hit and with empty clips they threw their guns at each other. Each picked up the others gun and quickly went on their way.

 

Not sure if I totally buy the story, but I like it none the less. Just thought I would share.

Sounds a little bit like that scene in SPR with Hovarth and that German.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great insight Bob, I appreciate the time and thought behind this. I especially like Ernie Pyles quotes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

One of the best examples of how “WE” have changed since the immediate post war years I have ever seen was a bowling shirt.

It was made from a big Nazi state service flag. A large eagle holding a swastika from shoulder to shoulder, so large it’s wing tips were cut off by the sleeves. I am sure that the serviceman who had it made was proud to wear it out bowling just after the war.

How would he be treated now if he did the same.

 

Ancient Greek and Roman coins have images of helmets, armor and whepons from the defeated on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...
whiskydown

My grandfather (1st ID, 15th Reg, L Co) told my dad that he thought he was going to die walking off the ship from Europe because his bag was loaded with so many souvenirs from the war and I believe it because I have many of them. There's also many I didn't end up with that other family members got.

 

My poor uncle sold off all the swords and bayonets.

 

My loser brother sold a Nazi dagger and a P-38.

 

I still have a mauser rifle, a walther sportmodell .22 LR rifle, a Nazi officer's cap, various Nazi holsters and belts, a nice ash tray, some dishes and ornamental things he must of scavenged from damaged buildings, his USGI light, a mauser cleaning kit, a mauser scope (that doesn't go on the rifle I have), and various Nazi pocket propaganda books and pins. 

 

I know my aunt also has some Nazi items he brought back, mostly Nazi patches and maybe a flag.

 

Quite a haul he had!

 

I know at some point in my life I heard the sportmodell was captured from a German child soldier who was left to defend his ground till death, but this is the typically the story associated with those rifles, so I don't know if it's true or not.

 

I do know the stock has a badge attached to the butt. It is marked "J. E. Wanderer - Reichenau" with a stag shown in the middle of the badge, suggesting it had some hunting affiliation. My grandfather ended the war in CZ, liberating concentration camps, and Reichenau was a part of CZ of that time, so I'm guessing the rifle came from there. Through research I did learn of a story about some US soldiers raiding a boy scout camp at the end of the war for souvenirs. Maybe this rifle came from that camp?

 

I have only ever found one other reference to J. E. Wanderer. It was in a listing for a European shotgun I found online, the barrel was marked "J. E. Wanderer" in fancy engraving and I assumed it to be a gunsmith name, but I haven't come across that name since.

 

I just thought I would share my family's history in regards to this topic!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...