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Original ranger helmet


Normandy1944
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Hey Ian I know there's a few second ranger helmets in museums that definitely appear to be modern aged helmets simply for the sake of displaying one ;)

 

For sure Justin. Just take a look at my old "Helmets in Normandy Museums" thread. Quite a few "fakes" painted up to look like D-Day lids. Joe Public won't notice that of course...only helmet geeks like us!! :lol:

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No, not necessarily...

 

To get a clear idea of correct Ranger helmet markings, one needs to study the few pictures that show them, along with some surviving examples which BTW are far less in number than one would think...

Thanks. And thanks for sharing those Ranger pics Ken.

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  • 2 years later...

I had the pleasure of meeting Len Lomell a number of times - not only at his home in Toms River but elsewhere as well. He gave this particular helmet to the Rangers museum in Grandcamp after the war. It is NOT an originally painted Ranger helmet - so please don't perpetuate the myth that it is. It was given to the museum back in the day when anything given by a veteran was assumed to be real and it was painted in the image of a wartime helmet.

 

This is NOT his wartime one and when I spoke to him face to face he told me so. Sorry to disappoint - but any examination of this helmet will show that it is a mock up made for the museum years ago.

 

Equally the BAR (with Brazillian or Mexican markings - I can't remember which now) is equally a nice piece - but not from the time. (post war).

 

The .45 auto given to the museum also came later after the war and was NOT one carried at the time (not taken back to the states and then brought back (on an aircraft) to Grandcamp …. these were items given at a time when people didn't know the difference and returning visitors were eager to please.

 

The museum does a great job of telling part of the Pointe du Hoc story - but please don't take the helmet as real… it is not.

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I had the pleasure of meeting Len Lomell a number of times - not only at his home in Toms River but elsewhere as well. He gave this particular helmet to the Rangers museum in Grandcamp after the war. It is NOT an originally painted Ranger helmet - so please don't perpetuate the myth that it is. It was given to the museum back in the day when anything given by a veteran was assumed to be real and it was painted in the image of a wartime helmet.

 

This is NOT his wartime one and when I spoke to him face to face he told me so. Sorry to disappoint - but any examination of this helmet will show that it is a mock up made for the museum years ago.

 

Equally the BAR (with Brazillian or Mexican markings - I can't remember which now) is equally a nice piece - but not from the time. (post war).

 

The .45 auto given to the museum also came later after the war and was NOT one carried at the time (not taken back to the states and then brought back (on an aircraft) to Grandcamp …. these were items given at a time when people didn't know the difference and returning visitors were eager to please.

 

The museum does a great job of telling part of the Pointe du Hoc story - but please don't take the helmet as real… it is not.

 

Great info, thanks for the update.

 

J

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Yep - its not original.

 

I have only ever seen an original liner which was posted on this forum some time ago. It had a diamond using a stencil No 5 - which indicated that it was used post hostilities - at a time when the Rangers were acting as police in Germany.

 

I have never seen an original Rangers helmet outside of that. Although I am told a good one is in a collection in Northern France which was left in an area they fought in.

 

110% of the Ranger helmets for sale now are wrong.

 

The originals were handed in back in the US and were repainted for other units and then the Rangers were disbanded. Unless the guy lost his in combat or lost his because of injury / or was sent home with it etc. Then they left them at the depot when they left the unit. This was told to me by a number of Ranger veterans over the years and the story was always the same.

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Yep - its not original.

 

I have only ever seen an original liner which was posted on this forum some time ago. It had a diamond using a stencil No 5 - which indicated that it was used post hostilities - at a time when the Rangers were acting as police in Germany.

 

I have never seen an original Rangers helmet outside of that. Although I am told a good one is in a collection in Northern France which was left in an area they fought in.

 

110% of the Ranger helmets for sale now are wrong.

 

The originals were handed in back in the US and were repainted for other units and then the Rangers were disbanded. Unless the guy lost his in combat or lost his because of injury / or was sent home with it etc. Then they left them at the depot when they left the unit. This was told to me by a number of Ranger veterans over the years and the story was always the same.

Thank you. So best way to go if one want's a representation is to go with a nicely done repro and not spend a ton of money on "claimed" originals.

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Thats probably best and then you are not disappointed. There are simply dozens of "real" ones out there - but I have been after one for about 30 years and not found an original…

 

I have always rated them as being THE hardest piece of WWII militaria to buy… in my interest area of D-day.

 

If you get a good copy then you have what you have - and the money is still in the bank.

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I recently watched a documentary about D-Day and there was some pretty clear color shots of second ranger helmets, I'll see if I could get some screen shots up.

 

J

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Thanks for the advise. I really do want a representation. I have an old fixed bail with blue splotches I posted here before and it looks like it's likely something done by a kid. I'm thinking of using it and adding the insignia to it. The repos I see for sale are too over done IMO with large chunks and huge scratch marks(usually only on the insignia). When done is it ok to post in the helmet section or is there a more appropriate section?

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  • 5 months later...

Just by way of an addition to this thread. Two days ago there was an auction in Caen which included 2 original Rangers helmets and a grappnel stated to have been used at Pointe du Hoc.

 

There was no reason to suggest that the grapple was not used there - but it was in very rusty condition unfortunately. It sold for a lot of money which was to be expected.

 

Of the two helmets - both were in very relic / worn condition. The 2nd marked helmet had been re-touched up at some time on the orange paint - but it was and is original.

 

The 5th Rangers helmet had shrapnel damage but was again original and had been found in Grandcamp-Maisy some years ago - so there is a good degree of provenance to it. After speaking over the weekend with 5th Ranger veteran Jack Burke (A Co. Medic) he is of the opinion the helmet was left after he treated A Co. Ranger Bob Battice for severe head wounds at Maisy on the 9th of June.

 

He had wrapped Battice's head with bandages and left the helmet in the field where he fell. The shrapnel is consistent with what Burke remembers of the incident and he could not recall any other 5th Ranger suffering similar head wounds between Omaha and Maisy. After that they stayed in Osmanville and then went inland.

 

The same incident resulted in A Co's BAR man Joe Vires receiving the Silver Star for escorting Jack Burke down the hill to rescue Battlce - so it was a well documented event. This particular helmet is going to go on display in Normandy in the near future.

 

Also reading back through the thread briefly… if its not already been said, the helmets were painted on the back after an order was given to identify the Rangers more specifically. During the Slapton Sands training (Operation Fabius) the Rangers found that they could not see who to follow - especially as everyone looked the same from the back. An order was given for the two battalions to paint an orange diamond on the back of their helmets so they knew who to follow. It had nothing to do with night exercises at all and you will note that all photos of Rangers with helmet diamonds date from after that point in time.

 

I hope this is of interest.

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Again, I really doubt the helmets sold at Caen were original... Half of the helmets put up for auction were either bogus or subject of concern and that includes the Ranger helmets.

 

It's not because they were in a museum in Sainte-Marie-du-Mont that they were original. The seller can claim whatever he wants. Makes me wonder if all the crap in the airborne museum in Saint-Mère-Eglise will demand similar prices if they ever decide to sell?

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As you can see the 2nd Rangers helmet had a little touching up to the diamond - but its a good one. The 5th helmet does not cause any issues at all. Especially when examined under a magnifying glass.

 

I did go to the auction and there was great deal of original stuff being sold and well as bad … so you have to sort the wheat from the chaff - as you do anywhere.

 

I completely agree equally that there was a lot of items which were questionable and no doubt they will appear in the future using the "ex-museum in Normandy" tag to re-sell them … but as ever, you had to examine all the items each in tern. You certainly would not buy such items without going to the auction to view them.

 

I completely agree also that you MUST buy the helmet and not the story.

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  • 8 months later...

Just by way of an addition to this thread. Two days ago there was an auction in Caen which included 2 original Rangers helmets and a grappnel stated to have been used at Pointe du Hoc.

 

There was no reason to suggest that the grapple was not used there - but it was in very rusty condition unfortunately. It sold for a lot of money which was to be expected.

 

Of the two helmets - both were in very relic / worn condition. The 2nd marked helmet had been re-touched up at some time on the orange paint - but it was and is original.

 

The 5th Rangers helmet had shrapnel damage but was again original and had been found in Grandcamp-Maisy some years ago - so there is a good degree of provenance to it. After speaking over the weekend with 5th Ranger veteran Jack Burke (A Co. Medic) he is of the opinion the helmet was left after he treated A Co. Ranger Bob Battice for severe head wounds at Maisy on the 9th of June.

 

He had wrapped Battice's head with bandages and left the helmet in the field where he fell. The shrapnel is consistent with what Burke remembers of the incident and he could not recall any other 5th Ranger suffering similar head wounds between Omaha and Maisy. After that they stayed in Osmanville and then went inland.

 

The same incident resulted in A Co's BAR man Joe Vires receiving the Silver Star for escorting Jack Burke down the hill to rescue Battlce - so it was a well documented event. This particular helmet is going to go on display in Normandy in the near future.

 

Also reading back through the thread briefly if its not already been said, the helmets were painted on the back after an order was given to identify the Rangers more specifically. During the Slapton Sands training (Operation Fabius) the Rangers found that they could not see who to follow - especially as everyone looked the same from the back. An order was given for the two battalions to paint an orange diamond on the back of their helmets so they knew who to follow. It had nothing to do with night exercises at all and you will note that all photos of Rangers with helmet diamonds date from after that point in time.

 

I hope this is of interest.

I realize this is a really old post, but I signed up just to say Bob Battice was my grandfather; he had indeed been shot in the head 3 days post D-Day and I wanted to thank you for posting this info. All of his company had thought he was dead for years, until he showed up at a Ranger reunion many years later.

 

It still amazes me what he and others were a part of. I didn't know the name Jack Burke before (though Joe Vires rings a bell); I'm glad I do now. They helped make it possible for me to be here and have such a great role model to look up to. Thanks again for posting the info!

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  • 1 year later...

As an update to this thread and hopefully a lesson for many (myself included) - I have just seen a piece of video footage taken of a 5th Ranger officers helmet and OR's helmet also being worn in August 1944 - and I have to say to my amazement it has a stencil 5 on it. It is posted on Youtube and readily available now.

 

It has made me re-think the whole debate of when the 5th Btn's helmets were painted with a stencilled 5 and clearly at least this one has period provenance and is unquestionably in use during 1944.

 

It proves that I do not know much as I thought I knew - and we all should not dismiss things based on the premise that because we have not seen one - it must be fake. I for one will be taking a new look at these now.

 

If someone can post the photo image from the video - it will help the debate further.

 

It is possible this was a helmet of a replacement - and that might work. But it does prove they wore them in 1944 and not just in 1945 at the end of hostilities.

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I have some photos of Task Force Sugar in Brittany that shows some men if the 5th Rangers with painted helmets. I can add them here if you'd like

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Hi

 

Yes, it would be great. The more we can study these the better.

 

Thanks

 

Collecting WWII Rangers related items.

Helmets, Equipment, Groupings, Photos and Dog Tags!

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Burning Hazard

There's a picture of a relic condition Ranger helmet on page 177 of "Helmets of the ETO", has anyone determined if it's original?

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Do you have a photo of it ? I don't have the book.

 

And… yes, thats the photo I spotted on the film. Pretty much confirms that stencil 5's were worn in 1944. If we could find out who the officer is - then we could determine if he was in on D-day or later.

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