Sjef Posted December 30, 2012 Share #1 Posted December 30, 2012 This ebay seller 143rdnyvi was discussed on this forum before, because of some questionable painted WWII helmets he had on offer. At the moment he has some bullion patches on auction which are offered as the real deal but are clearly not. The same probably goes for his other patches. The patches are rather well made and with some (artificial) ageing could easily fool an inexperienced collector. His story is that the patches "CAME OUT OF A LOCAL COLLECTION. THE ORIGINAL OWNER WAS AN ARMY NURSE WHO SERVED 1945-1975. SHE COLLECTED PATCHES FROM HER TOURS IN WWII, KOREA AND VIETNAM." Who knows, this might well be true, but that doesn't make these patches WWII originals. And the starting bids are way to high for fakes. Here are some examples: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #2 Posted December 31, 2012 These sure look Japanese made to me.Looking at his past auctions he has a bullion 25th ID and I have a uniform with the same patch plus a couple loose ones from a veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted December 31, 2012 Share #3 Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted December 31, 2012 Share #4 Posted December 31, 2012 I am not an expert on bullion patches, that is why I really try and stay away from them.How can you tell aboriginal from a fake? The only thing I do know, and thats from an old collector friend, is that if it has the black paper backing it's probably Paki made.Is this still or ever been true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted December 31, 2012 Share #5 Posted December 31, 2012 I am not an expert on bullion patches, that is why I really try and stay away from them.How can you tell aboriginal from a fake? The only thing I do know, and thats from an old collector friend, is that if it has the black paper backing it's probably Paki made.Is this still or ever been true? Black paper backing is not an automatic clue to it being Paki made. I have several post WWII German made patches with black backing. As for this seller and his patches, IMO most of them look o.k. to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted December 31, 2012 Share #6 Posted December 31, 2012 I have been keeping pictures of his bullion patches as a reference source down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted December 31, 2012 Share #7 Posted December 31, 2012 The current source of repro bullion patches is Pakistan, and these do not look like the current Pakistani made reproductions. These look old to me. The bullion work is very highly detailed. The ones I looked at had a brown or tan cloth backing. I am not sure if that is an indicator for a point of origin or not, but again they backsides do not look like typical or recent Pakistani work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #8 Posted December 31, 2012 I have a Far East AF and a 5th AF made in Austrailia with a thin black backing.Have owned a Aussie made 1st Marine Div also with a black back.Also a Far East bullion thats like the one posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted December 31, 2012 I was also under the impression that black backing was either German post WWII or Pakistani post WWII. I guess doyler proves me wrong. I know for a fact that current patch makers in Pakistan are capable of making patches as high quality as these. A ceremonial uniform tailor in Holland gets his bullion patches made in Pakistan. They are of (at least) the same quality!! And I have a modern patch, tailor made in padded bullion (with black backing) from a London based dealer in blazer badges, which is also the same high quality. I suspect it is also made in Pakistan. These clearly differ from the mass produced cheaper bullion patches from Pakistan which you see offered for "buy it now" prices of $10. If the patches this seller has on offer are over 60 years old, they all sure have been conserved very well! No moth nips, no darkening of the metal wire or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted December 31, 2012 Share #10 Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks for the info.This is why I tend to stay away from bullion patches, unless cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgawne Posted December 31, 2012 Share #11 Posted December 31, 2012 They look too new to me, and is it not convenient that this nurse collected both the ETO and PTO, and in three wars, and happened to get three bullion patches that all look like the same maker? Also, most of the 'nurse' collections I have seen are generally what guys would give them, or what they could easily aquire (which means standard woven patches). So it's just too good a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted December 31, 2012 Share #12 Posted December 31, 2012 From what I can see of them, I think they're ok. I think the absolute "mintness" (is that a word?) of them makes them appear fake/new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted December 31, 2012 Share #13 Posted December 31, 2012 All the ones shown in this thread are original and are Japanese made. Looks like WWII-Occupation period through Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #14 Posted December 31, 2012 I would love to have that Cav patch.Classic Japanese quality.The 2nd Div is a stunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #15 Posted December 31, 2012 I was also under the impression that black backing was either German post WWII or Pakistani post WWII. I guess doyler proves me wrong. I know for a fact that current patch makers in Pakistan are capable of making patches as high quality as these. A ceremonial uniform tailor in Holland gets his bullion patches made in Pakistan. They are of (at least) the same quality!! And I have a modern patch, tailor made in padded bullion (with black backing) from a London based dealer in blazer badges, which is also the same high quality. I suspect it is also made in Pakistan. These clearly differ from the mass produced cheaper bullion patches from Pakistan which you see offered for "buy it now" prices of $10. If the patches this seller has on offer are over 60 years old, they all sure have been conserved very well! No moth nips, no darkening of the metal wire or anything. Sjef Im glad you posted these.Always good to have discussions and offer different opinions.Not my intent to prove anyone wrong.Just want to share some limited knowlegede I have and add to the learning process and I really like being able to see and learn from things posted.I seldom look at ebay and Im sure I wouldnt have seen these if you hadnt posted them so thank you for doing so. Here are a few I have with different color backings and embroidery methods.The 5th AF is a unifrm removed example.The 25th ID patches are the ones I mentioned before and they were all found in the pocket of the vets unifrom in the glassine bag shown.Im sure most of them hadnt seen the light of day since the occuapation.I have one other of the vets unifroms with a 25th on the right sleeve and 2nd Armored on the left.Pretty odd combination for sure.Anyway here are the patches and please post away any others so we can see them Thanks RD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #16 Posted December 31, 2012 THe 25th patches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #17 Posted December 31, 2012 BACKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #18 Posted December 31, 2012 Uniform mounted 25th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted December 31, 2012 Share #19 Posted December 31, 2012 I would love to have that Cav patch.Classic Japanese quality.The 2nd Div is a stunner. You're right.The workmanship is outstanding.I too love the 2nd ID.The detailing is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted December 31, 2012 Share #20 Posted December 31, 2012 Collections of "pristine" patches do appear. Here is a collection of Post-WWII German made patches I recently found at an antique shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted December 31, 2012 Share #21 Posted December 31, 2012 More of the same lot buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted December 31, 2012 Share #22 Posted December 31, 2012 Nice collection of patches.To bad they have the thumb tacks in them.The armored ones are nice.I also like the 82nd and 101st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 31, 2012 Share #23 Posted December 31, 2012 Nice collection of patches.To bad they have the thumb tacks in them.The armored ones are nice.I also like the 82nd and 101st. I would bet the Antique shop owner put the tacks through them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share #24 Posted December 31, 2012 Sjef Im glad you posted these.Always good to have discussions and offer different opinions.Not my intent to prove anyone wrong.Just want to share some limited knowlegede I have and add to the learning process and I really like being able to see and learn from things posted.I seldom look at ebay and Im sure I wouldnt have seen these if you hadnt posted them so thank you for doing so. Here are a few I have with different color backings and embroidery methods.The 5th AF is a unifrm removed example.The 25th ID patches are the ones I mentioned before and they were all found in the pocket of the vets unifrom in the glassine bag shown.Im sure most of them hadnt seen the light of day since the occuapation.I have one other of the vets unifroms with a 25th on the right sleeve and 2nd Armored on the left.Pretty odd combination for sure.Anyway here are the patches and please post away any others so we can see them Thanks RD No problem doyler. Thank you (and the other forum members) for your contribution! This is turning into a very informative thread. And I love your AAF patches! I have a bullion 5th Air Force patch with white cloth backing. I think it is Japanese made. I will post some pics when I'm home. Not to persist against better judgement, but just to contribute to the discussion, here is a link with some blazer badges of the London shop I was talking about: http://www.bensonand...a0o9r72mb1vsve7 I have a Dutch parachute wing tailor made by them. It has black backing, but I'm sure that if I specifically asked them to use white cloth backing instead they would be happy to serve me. I think they order the patches from Pakistan (it takes several weeks for a special order). I could ask them just to be sure. For the USMC fans, they have a USMC blazer badge on the 3rd page of the Military designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted December 31, 2012 Share #25 Posted December 31, 2012 Yep, I would never thumb tack or glue cloth insignia to anything. When she mailed the patches to me, she included a baggie of the thumb-tacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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