HELP PLEASE: UDT SEAL PATCH & 504 DELVILS PATCH

[navyman]

Hi,

I bought these this morning from a friend. I usually don't buy post ww2 patches but like these. I paid $45.00 for the two. Not sure what era and I'm hoping there not repro's.

Any info on these two would be appreciated!!

 

Jason

 

[navyman]

 

Jason

[vintageproductions]

The UDT SEAL patch is Japanese made and is worth a lot more then the $45.00

The 504th looks like a current Vietnamese made piece for the tourists trade.

[navyman]

The UDT SEAL patch is Japanese made and is worth a lot more then the $45.00

The 504th looks like a current Vietnamese made piece for the tourists trade.

 

Thanks, I paid $35.00 for the Seal Patch and $10.00 for 504 patch. Is the UDT Seal patch 60's-70's? The guy did tell me he wasn't sure on the 504 devils patch, but for $10.00 thought I would take a chance.

Thanks again Bob,

 

Jason

[vintageproductions]

The SEAL patch could be anytime from the early 70's-early 90's. The last couple of these I saw sell went for a couple of hundred each.

The 504th , for $10.00, is a good space filler.

[navyman]

The SEAL patch could be anytime from the early 70's-early 90's. The last couple of these I saw sell went for a couple of hundred each.

The 504th , for $10.00, is a good space filler.

 

Thanks again for the help!!!

 

 

Jason

[skir]

The UDT/SEAL patch is a fantasy patch that started appearing in the 80s. This patch and its appearance on the collectors market story were covered in Clem Kelly's VNIC newsletter and the Combat Swimmers Insignia newsletter if You can find the old issues (both no longer published). I believe the first to appear on the market were Taiwan made and sold by Tom Clinton in the 80s. Since then I have seen hand emb. 'Vietnam party suit' versions also.

[vintageproductions]

I remember the article Clem did about the Taiwan and Philippine made ones, but I thought the Japanese / Okinawa ones were okay.

I remember Tom having the PI made ones in his binders at shows.

[Patchcollector]

I have the Seal one too,looks Japanese made to me.I can't remember what I paid for it,but I'm pretty sure it was not over 50.

[navyman]

Thanks for all the help guys. Yes, patch is Japanese made. I have some others Japanese made patches that still have the tags or stickers on. They appear to be the same in construction.

So the Japanese made ones are legit?

 

 

Jason

[skir]

Jason,

Sorry to say its a fantasy patch. Never found Any UDT/SEAL/SBS/HAL Guys on both Coast Teams who have ever seen it. I bought one at a show back in the 80s and thought I had found gold until walking around the same show I saw more for sale. Red Flag. Kinda like going to a local show and finding a MACV SOG RT patch then seeing the same patch at 3 other tables,it just is not going to happen with an original patch. By that evening I found that I had one of the Tom Clinton patches. Long story short, I researched the patch design for years and have always come up with laughs when shown to Team Guys. Been told more than once "No Frog whould wear that " Never seen before in the Teams and Not seen in the collecting field until the 80s. Mine is still around somewhere I think, no loss if it is gone.

[navyman]

Jason,

Sorry to say its a fantasy patch. Never found Any UDT/SEAL/SBS/HAL Guys on both Coast Teams who have ever seen it. I bought one at a show back in the 80s and thought I had found gold until walking around the same show I saw more for sale. Red Flag. Kinda like going to a local show and finding a MACV SOG RT patch then seeing the same patch at 3 other tables,it just is not going to happen with an original patch. By that evening I found that I had one of the Tom Clinton patches. Long story short, I researched the patch design for years and have always come up with laughs when shown to Team Guys. Been told more than once "No Frog whould wear that " Never seen before in the Teams and Not seen in the collecting field until the 80s. Mine is still around somewhere I think, no loss if it is gone.

 

Thanks for the info, I had thought it to be a novelty piece. Not issue or authorize for wear but......

 

At least I didn't paid a lot for it.

 

Jason

[vintageproductions]

Goes to show you learn something new everyday. I always thought if they were Japanese made they were for party jackets, just like the large Philippine made, "In Case Of War Break Glass" Patches were also only for party jackets.

[Mitch]

Hi All,

I'm a little confused. Larry Stone sold a vietnamese hand made version of this patch for several hundreds of dollars. Looking at that patch on his website , it looks period hand done to me. If the patch didn't show up to the 80's , the collectors of period Viet handmade patches are in trouble. I think we need more discussion on this patch.

Regards, Mitch

[Patchcollector]

As I posted earlier,I too have the Japanese made version in my collection.But when I bought it(it was from either Larry or Bob),I never thought of it as a Nam era patch,or something that was even worn by the teams.It was not sold to me as a war era piece,and I figured it to be a 70's or 80's novelty,or souvenir type patch sold in the shops of Japan for the soldiers there.

[all-bull]

Mitch,

I remember that too and was going to say something about it. Can anyone fill us in on the VN hand made ones then????

[Patchcollector]

Just so everyone can see it,I pulled this pic from Larrys' site.It sold for 500.Wow,the workmanship is superb.

[vintageproductions]

I've been thinking about this patch the last couple of days, and still believe they are "Party jacket" type patches.

On my first trip to the Philippines, around 1985 or 1986, I was scrounging through all the embroidery shops in Subic Bay and Angeles City. There was an embroidery shop / barber shop across the street from the JEST training center gate. They had one showcase full of just SEAL related insignia, everyday wear items (tridents), and some novelty type patches. There were a couple of these in that showcase, some of the In Case of War..., and lots of the Philippine SEAL / Swimmer insignia. I took me three visits to buy anything out of their cases. The second to last time I went in and was able to buy all their displays which included patches from the early 1950's up until the 1990's, but man were they tough to negotiate with....

[Spike]

I think this might be a West Coast related patch. Skir, maybe that's why East Coast guys laughed at them, that WC/EC thing within the Teams

[navyman]

Just so everyone can see it,I pulled this pic from Larrys' site.It sold for 500.Wow,the workmanship is superb.

 

I see this one has the seal insignia on. The one I have posted does not have the seal logo on.

 

Jason

[firefighter]

I would send a scan to the UDT/SEAL museum in Ft Pierce,FL.I bet somebody there will have information, good or bad, on this patch.It's been years since I went there.Very cool and interesting place.I guess they have the dingy the capt of the Maersk Alabama was in.

[doyler]

I would send a scan to the UDT/SEAL museum in Ft Pierce,FL.I bet somebody there will have information, good or bad, on this patch.It's been years since I went there.Very cool and interesting place.I guess they have the dingy the capt of the Maersk Alabama was in.

 

I was there mid or early 90s.I know they under went a remodel after Some great displays but in the WW2 section they had a Viet Nam UDT/Seal printed patch in with and ID'd as Japanese.I know the guy they had as curator at the time was replaced some time after this as I think he was posing as a vet.The next time spoke to someone there it was James"Patches"Watson.Very helpful individual.

[J_Andrews]

Re the 504th with Vietnamese newspaper on the reverse: No part of the 504th served in VN. The 3rd Bde, 82nd was comprised of 1-505, 2-505 and 1-508.

 

This DESIGN originated post-WWII at Bragg but had disappeared by 1965 and probably by 1960. It did show up on unit area signage and T-shirts after then, but pocket patches in general were not allowed/encouraged in the 82nd. However, the 1-504 and 2-504 may have used it when in Germany, 1957-1963, as part of the 11th and 8th ID.