Grenades for sale at National WWII Museum

[vtangjohnee]

Hi,

 

My wife bought me a grenade from the National WWII Museum in New Orleans. This is their description :

 

The MK2 "Pineapple" Decommissioned Hand Grenade is an item that is exclusive to The National WWII Museum. This fragmentation hand grenade was used by the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II. Commonly known as a "pineapple" grenade, because of its shape and structure, the MK2 has grooves in its cast-iron shell to aid in gripping the grenade - which give it the appearance of a pineapple fruit.

 

While in use during active warfare, these grenades were filled with TNT and a small length of safety fuse terminated with a black powder igniter charge. In their current decommissioned state, these grenades are drilled through at the bottom, the explosive powder removed, and are a piece of WWII history.

 

Here's a pic from their site :

 

 

I'm not an expert in grenades, but this site appears to be.

 

At the Inert-ord site, he claims grenades of this appearance :

 

 

are foreign made fakes.

 

The two grenades appear similar to me, but the known fake has a strange shape and "knobby" sections.

 

The real concern I have is the spoon, as the one from the museum has a bent spoon while the known real grenades has curved spoons.

My fuse section has :

 

FUZE M228

HIA08F *

001-025

 

The fuse might be post WW2, but I'm curious if the body is WW2 era. The body looks like it was cast with two halves, and after casting, the seams were ground smooth. It does have the "RFX" stamped in it, with a "5" on one of the sections. Also, I do see specs of faded blue paint inside some of the nooks of the steel. It sure smells old, and is rusted, less so on the ground down seems.

 

I'll post some pictures hopefully tomorrow.

 

Can anyone tell me what I've got?

 

Thanks!

[hawkdriver]

That is a repro surplus market fake grenade. You can buy those about any surplus for about $10.

[vtangjohnee]

That is a repro surplus market fake grenade. You can buy those about any surplus for about $10.

 

Thanks. I've read a little more, and I believe this is a repro.

 

Its bothersom that the National WWII Museum sells these giving the impression they are real, decommissioned MK2 grenades.

[hawkdriver]

The fuse is definitely not used with these grenades. Also, can't see it in your picture, but a key identifier on these is the mold seam is usually so bad that it has been ground down with a power grinder. The body has an extremely rough texture like it was poured in a sand mold.

[Garandomatic]

I think they all were sand cast, but these reproductions are just made with less care. A local foundry made the ones marked BB, and they are a sand casting outfit that among other things made boilers for the civilian market.

[hink441]

Yes I agree that is definetly a fake grenade. A real RFX practice grenade was used from the late 40s onward until the 70's. Here is a picture of a real M-21 RFX practice grenade.

 

 

Here is a line-up of some practice grenades. The first two on the left are WW1 vintage, the next three are WW2 vintage, and the last one on the right is a 1953 RFX grenade;

 

[vtangjohnee]

Thanks everyone for confirming my fake grenade The seams ARE ground down, terribly too.

 

Its in the war room giving some ambiance. I like the look of it there, so I suppose I'll have to find it a real WW2 mate.

 

Again, my only real complaint is how the WW2 museum markets these, carefully wording their description to give the impression they are real WW2 era pieces.

 

Hink, I like the collection!

[Coconut Harry]

I'll agree all is correct here about the OP's RFX that's been discussed...and I'm disappointed that the WW2 Museum that sells these "original" WW2 de-milled grenades deceives people... they should change their description of what they are selling to visitors...It's very disappointing that a museum dedicated to keeping the history of the Greatest Generation alive either does not know anything about original period items, or they are purposely deceiving visitors to make a buck. They are no better than the dozens of sellers I see all the time trying to sell cheap offshore castings- RFX repros as "original" WW2 grenades....

 

I'd like to add to this thread for other members here and the people who lurk these Military history & Militaria sites some info I've learned in my years researching and collecting etc.....And that is that the M21 practice grenades are NOT strictly post war Korean war era RFX Richmond Foundry training grenades as many people believe, but that the "M21 designation" was actually put into use during WW2 in approx. the 1943-44 time period....and the WW2 M21's were not the RFX "knobby" shaped post war bodies.

A few serious collectors including myself, also some ex-EOD Gov. collectors who have access to old minutes reports of the ordnance dept. have tried to find the exact date from these minutes reports, manuals etc. when the M21 was designated as such, but as of this time nothing definitive has been found as the Gov seems to not have keep this info around.........

........EXCEPT.....what we do know now from a few finds I've made over the last few years that I've added to my collection, is that the "M21's" were in use at least as early as 1944.... I've found 3 1944 dated M21 grenade cans so far, 2 of said cans which contained the grenades.....one is shown below

 

....and what's quite interesting is it happens to be a very late WWI early narrow base MkII w/ threaded filling hole that was painted blue and re-used in WW2 as an "M21" trainer....At this time of the war, the 43-44 period they were to the best of myself and others knowledge still issuing the MkIIA1 blue trainers also.....my theory is they decided to change the designation of the MkIIA1 Blue trainers to "M21's" because actual HE high explosive filled grenades were also designated "MkIIA1's" and this could have caused confusion in the logistics-ordering-supply chain.

 

There have also been only 2 other empty WW2 dated M21 cans shown by members of another forum that they have found pics of on the internet that are known of at this time. If any members have WW2 dated M21 grenade cans with or without the grenades, PLEASE post pics of them. Myself and the serious grenade collecting community would like to see them.

This might be a boring subject to some here as this is not just an ordnance forum, but I hope this info will be of some interest to members, and any others interested in the many small details of WW2 grenades and trainers.

 

BTY....nice collection of trainers Hink.....we kind of "know" each other from another site...or two....

good to see you here....I'm new here, but I like it so far....the posting system seems quite easy except for the 150kb limit for photos, (it took me 1/2 hr to figure how to downsize the photo below!!!) But still there seems to be some very interesting topics, posts and members here! OK...I'm done now with one of my famous loooooog...and to some.... boring posts.....

 

Regards, Steve

[PvtTamura]

Those grenades are great! I use them as shift knobs, cheap and no guilt. (Jeep has four new grenade shifters coming up!)

 

 

[hink441]

Welcome aboard Steve,

I am glad to see you on this forum. I look forward to your in-depth and thought provoking dialogue concerning the US grenade. The forum will benefit from your experience and research in this often overlooked area of collecting.

 

Chris

[vtangjohnee]

Hi Steve, nice post. Thanks for the great info. I'm glad to see true interest in these subjects, keeps the memories alive. This definitely is NOT a boring topic

[jgawne]

I agree it's pretty bad that the museum does this. My opinion of them gets even lower.

[vtangjohnee]

I certainly don't want to diminish any of the museum's work. I in fact would like to visit.

 

However I've notice small oddities indicating its not very good at communication. The fake grenade with a somewhat misleading description is the first. I tried contacting them via email and phone about the grenade and received no reply at all, not even an "i don't know". Lastly, they have what appears to be a nice outreach to educators regarding WW2 technology with an offer to send a free poster. My wife is a teacher, and I signed up to have one sent to her school, but they never sent one. I signed up again. nothing... ???

 

Part of the process to get the poster is to provide an email. That appears to be their only form of communication... one way from the museum trying to sell stuff. Sometimes I get an email about a lecture or conference, but most of the email is for donations or for the store.

 

I guess to truly appreciate the museum, you have to visit it.