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Tiger Stripes Part II


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The other side .

This one has got the rich purples which collectors covet.

Poor dyes made from Vegies produce this aspect of tigers "black" stripes that gives it its rich visual appeal.

This print was developed in 1963 in Japan to meet the ever growing need for protective combat clothing for the ever growing war.

Each year the pattern changed in both format , scale ,colors and fabric.

Some designs had certain shapes both added and taken away.

By 66 like the above which has members doubt ....is just a product of the pattern being copied and reaching a final design product before it was again changed again but even more manufactures.

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And the top .

 

 

After a while , one sees many different clues in the whole story of stripe.

 

Its not just the print , but in fact the cloth and sewing , the item in question has some serious sewing style that is not modern double needle mass produced in a modern factory with poly cotton thread.

Developing an eye for this takes many years of studying hundreds of pieces of both tiger , and vintage clothing items.

Books help ....but fingering the real thing , and casting an eye over old sewing really gives one the eye to tell in a split second , right from wrong.

This is in fact the most important aspect of collecting .

 

 

owen

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post-532-1295991646.jpg

 

post-532-1295990565.jpg

 

The top pic show the material I have, the bottom is a cropped image from the auction showing a part of the pattern on the waist band that is pretty much the same as the top pic. I know there will always be slight differences of the pattern during the printing process but these 2 shapes in the pattern look almost exactly alike and even the color is close. The top pic is NOT TSP MATERIAL!

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post-532-1295991646.jpg

 

post-532-1295990565.jpg

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//m...-1295991646.jpg

The top pic show the material I have, the bottom is a cropped image from the auction showing a part of the pattern on the waist band that is pretty much the same as the top pic. I know there will always be slight differences of the pattern during the printing process but these 2 shapes in the pattern look almost exactly alike and even the color is close. The top pic is NOT TSP MATERIAL!

 

Hello gentlemen,

 

i dont want to disrespect anybody!!

 

A forum is there to disuss, to exchange opinion, to get and give knowledges. I'm not an expert like some other "older" experienced collectors, but what i know is what i know (if i'm wrong, everybody can 'give me a lesson' or prove the opposite)

I just want to clarify some positions.

 

Regards

 

1. the follower of Tigerstripe Productions is Truspec.

even my Truspec shirt has the part, which Spike (post 763) shown us before, see the PICs

spikespartxdd1.jpg

post-6590-1296246557.jpg

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Gimp , Not garment cut , print ..........read what I wrote please .

 

Do you have any pieces in this pattern ?

 

simple question .

 

 

I think pics say more than thausand words, i think this answer your questions.

 

I compare my TRUSPEC variant 1 pattern with TRUSPEC variant 2 and my legit JWD / Classic Pattern shirt.

 

The marking points show up to understand what i / we meaning.

 

left: TRUSPEC variant 1, right: TRUSPEC variant 2:

post-6590-1296247576.jpg

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Gimp-What you are showing with your real piece is exactly what was on the auction.

 

Showing the fake items versus Spike's real piece is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

Next, and I have held off adding this. Back in the 80's when Tiger Stripe Products was just getting started and they had a wet dream about making stuff they came to someone who was a really good friend of Spike's and mine named Ron "Tiger Ronnie" Tapely, Andrei I am sure you remember the tiger man. At the time he was the "god" of Tiger Stripes and rare Vietnam camo. In fact Ronnie is how I got into the rag mills in the 80's, as you couldn't walk off the street and shop you had to be brought in by someone that would vouch for you. The owners of TSP came to Ronnie and he suggested the pattern that Spikey posted as even then it didn't turn up that often. So the first year was very close to this elusive pattern, then they went on and cut corners and started mass producing after this first run. What I am saying is the first run was copied IDENTICAL to a real pattern. After Ronnie helped them he then went on to help SOG Specialties make SOG knives but that is another story. So you don't need to preach to us on what they did, as we were there when it was being done.

 

Also, do you understand that everytime a bolt of material was printed there is going to be a slight variation? No matter how hard you try, there is always, at least with 50's through early 70's screen printed technology, be something slightly off, until you get to computer printing.

 

Lastly, do we need to start a seperate thread of just reproduction Vietnam camo? If so, say so and I will get one going. I hate to see this thread and part one getting mucked up with all this fake stuff. These two threads are incredible and there is nothing like it in the world to compare it with, because of the knowledge that is shown on ORIGINAL items.

www.vintageproductions.com


"A militaria show is a social event for anti-socials" - A.T. 2008


ASMIC Executive President

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I know this one has run and run, and bearing in mind Bob's sage words above. But I would certainly have called the outfit in the auction as a repro. I dont in any way have the depth of experience of the senior members on the site, but I have handled a fair bit of the classic pattern. Every garment I have seen in this pattern - standard heavy weight, mid-weight flight suits and light-weight 60s hunting gear has always been very consistent from the point of view of the pattern design. And I have only seen the feature outlined in red in TSP items. That is not to say is it a repro, as it does 'look' right in other respects. But it is interesting if there was a wartime, Japanese produced, variation on the classic pattern like this,

 

It does appear the trousers are 5 pocket yet stamped with a 'US-S' size. I am sure this is possible, but again, not something I have seen.

 

An interesting one.

 

 

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My head hurts after reading the last few replies here. I'm sadly confused. I'd rather see fakes in a separate thread. That would really help new or casual collectors (like me) just as much as seeing the real ones.

 

Here's my contribution to the thread. I had shown this here before but not in this thread.

 

The set is from an SF friend of mine. This is my favorite pattern. I have no idea what you guys called it before the RJ book but I love it. I'd like to find a larger set someday. This set is AM.

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Member:

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Primary interests:

The United States Army in WWII

The United States Army in Vietnam
 

My YouTube patch channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXvNiUvwbB-e4i0gl-RrFA

 

WANTED:

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551st PIB pocket and shoulder patches

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the original suit came from Tiger Ronnie .

 

what is there to say that has not been said ?

Nothing .

Tiger R, is a legend in TS collecting .

He had everything , seen everything , hands down ,had every pattern...

EVERY PATTERN EVER..........

thats why he was the GOD of tiger collecting.

Not to sound rude but he forgot more about tigers than most of us will ever know ............

 

 

 

 

soar ,

 

its the same old picture ,

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Great pic.

 

Just a general comment about this thread. I thought I knew quite a bit about Tigers, but I have learned a lot more about the finer points since joining the forum. Its a fantastic resource. And the, IMHO, having the repros on the thread can be really useful. And bit of vigorous debate is all part of the fun.

 

Tim

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Gentlemen!

 

THANKS Bob for the great info.

 

My comparison shows ONLY how close the listing set to the repro is or repro to legit items.

Every re-producer has a legit source, no doubt!

Don't drive to other dircetion with "stories" and "other part of stripes" like Spike does it. Distracting other (new) member when reading.

ONCE again Gimp is talking about THE one part, which request, which comes a lot on TSP.

 

So, if you guys CONFIRM that this request points exist on LEGIT war time tigers, i'm man enough to say open here, "cool thanks for the info and i have learn a little more"!

 

the request points are:

 

- the "dubious" part of stripe and the rest of stripe structures (not all, but some parts)

- double stitching/seams on the waist area

- 7 pocket US-CUT pants with button fly

 

 

Regards

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along the lines of tsp's and features. i had a very early set in an asian cut with single button pockets on jacket, pants had a period style waist not a jeans one. now that fooled me with the photo's i was supplied as features were not on regular tsp's.

 

i have seen early tsp's marked US-xxx

 

I have a early white lable TSP jacket myself with correct print as shown in this thread in a light twill that tears like tissue paper but it's don't look vat dyed as the green/brown is fading fast with British sun like i was wearing in LA ! The kinda only thing that screams repro are the daft camo bdu buttons they put on it , which i might swap over. But hey i only wear it every day with some blue jeans and a white t-shirt topped off with white sneakers.

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the original suit came from Tiger Ronnie .

 

what is there to say that has not been said ?

Nothing .

Tiger R, is a legend in TS collecting .

He had everything , seen everything , hands down ,had every pattern...

EVERY PATTERN EVER..........

 

soar ,

 

its the same old picture ,

 

 

Okay, let s say that the TSP is the exact replica from the set from Ronnie , the following pic with the TSP shirt auctionned in this moment by Mr Sgt Hulka is the proof

 

celrpv10.jpg

 

The next question is: could anyone show us the same stripe from his TS that he got directly from a Vet ? I know many advanced Vietnam collector are reading this forum, they probably have an IDed set that has this stripe. I look at my 5 sets of JWD (or Classic Tiger for old school collector) with different cuts, but I didn't find any with this stripe, but recognized that a pattern is quite large and one set can not represent all the print.

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Okay, let s say that the TSP is the exact replica from the set from Ronnie , the following pic with the TSP shirt auctionned in this moment by Mr Sgt Hulka is the proof

 

celrpv10.jpg

 

The next question is: could anyone show us the same stripe from his TS that he got directly from a Vet ? I know many advanced Vietnam collector are reading this forum, they probably have an IDed set that has this stripe. I look at my 5 sets of JWD (or Classic Tiger for old school collector) with different cuts, but I didn't find any with this stripe, but recognized that a pattern is quite large and one set can not represent all the print.

 

 

I also have several orginal JWD pieces in my collection and I had even much more allready in my hands in the last 20 years ;)

so I have study this pattern serious but I never ever have seen one with this special kind of print!?

 

in my opinion THIS print is just early TSP and I don't belief on a 3rd JWD wartime pattern!

that dosen't exist me that is just TSP!

 

mike

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post-532-1296345207.jpgpost-532-1296345243.jpg

 

OK, look at both of the patterns of tigers. The top image is REAL, NOT TSP!, material the bottom is silver or JWD. The shapes shown look same but they are VERY different in a number of ways. Is it possible that the pattern that the original TSP print was made from is from a not widely seen pattern? Is it possible that the pattern that all you guys are comparing the set with, silver or JWD, to the set on EBAY is a similar yet a completely DIFFERENT pattern? That would mean you really are comparing apples to oranges. There are other shapes that are on the pattern on the tp that ARE NOT on the silver pattern on the bottom. This doesn't necessarily mean that that EBAY set isn't a TSP set but my feeling is that it may very well be a pattern that is rarely seen.

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