Tiger Stripes Part II

[kammo-man]

Its a CISO type .

owen

[Soar]

I came across this on the old Tiger thread. It was shown as a Japanese commercial garment. Looking at the pics it appears to be printed onto poplin. This came up in a conversation I had with a collector recently - the classic Japanese pattern/JWD printed onto poplin. Does anyone know the provenance of this - is it a wartime fabric type? Thanks.

 

[VMI88]

Its a CISO type .

owen

 

Thanks! Seabees did a lot of construction work at Special Forces camps, so I suppose that's probably how he acquired it.

 

Bill

[Soar]

I just received this today, brought it at a show in the UK. It is what is listed in Johnson as John Wayne Sparse Variant or a variant on the CIA pattern. The pattern on this shirt generally has a lot more fine detail than the classic JWS/CIA pattern. Most striking is the colour difference. The background fabric is very yellow, and the whole thing looks much lighter and more yellow/green than the classic version. I have included a shot with the classic and this pattern side by side.

 

Tim

 

[Soar]

some more

 

[Soar]

some more

[Soar]

last one.

 

[kammo-man]

Thats a real pretty shirt with great colors .

owewn

[kjones5452]

Got my repro golds from SM Wholesale yesterday. The large size stamping was not used on my set,just a real

small size mark made with an ink pen that goes away when their washed. Ordered last Sat.,shipped Tuesday,

got yesterday morning. Got a good feel to em, their not thin or flimsy. Heavier than OG 107s if that tell you

anything. I'm satisfied.

Gotta get back to replumbing the house. YEAH! Got that little surprise after the golds were ordered.Oh well.

[Soar]

Having had a close look at the tiger shirt that I posted a few days ago, there are some interesting observations about the genesis of non-Marine Corps Tiger Stripe. I know many people do not like Johnson terms, but I am going to use them as it otherwise this might be a little confusing. Looked at from the from the point of view of the print details, it is clear that the Classic Pattern/John Wayne Dense did not come from the Early Pattern/John Wayne Sparse. In fact, the Classic Pattern is a direct descendant of what is called in Johnson John Wayne Sparse Variant. This is the pattern that was one of the early Marine Corps patterns - there are a few garments kicking around. It also comes on heavy weight fabric, again there seem to be three for four garments kicking around. I recently purchased the heavyweight JSV shirt shown a few posts above. Looking closely at it, and looking at the photos of the JSV Marine Corps garments I owned a while back, the difference between this pattern and the standard Early Pattern/John Wayne Sparse are clear. The standard Early Pattern/JWS does not have nearly as much fine detail as JSV. Basically it looks like the screens where inaccurately copied, thus losing detail when JWS was first made. Therefore, JSV must have come before JWS. If one then looks at the classic Japanese Pattern/JWD and JSV it is clear in the areas where the patterns are the same that the fine details are identical. Whereas they are not the same as standard John Wayne Sparse.

 

So, it looks like JSV is the earliest non-Marine Corps Tiger, and that the standard early pattern/JWS is in slightly inaccurate second generation copy of it. I know Johnson proposed this, but this would seem to be the proof. And it was JSV that was used when preparing the design of the classic Japanese pattern/JWD.

 

Finally, I know there are some very advanced Tiger collectors here, so if I am stating the obvious, apologies!

 

Pics of the same feature from each design below.

[Soar]

Problem loading the images, so have had to convert them to B/W

 

[Soar]

[Soar]

[Soar]

[Sjef]

Here's a Tiger Stripes boonie hat wich I purchased about 6 years ago.

 

 

 

As you can see it is undoubtedly tailor made, but as I am not a Tiger Stripes expert I am not 100% sure of its authenticity.

After digging trough the huge amount of posts on this topic, to me the pattern looks a lot like the JWD pattern, but it is also close to the repro Tiger Stripe Products pattern.

Actually it is maybe closest to the pattern of the uniform shown by doyler earlier in this topic http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...st&p=399958

 

The colours it the 2nd picture are closer to its colours in real life.

The stitching is done with black yarn and the fabric is (still?) rather stiff. It appears that it has not been worn very much.

It has a low crown and a medium sized brim.

 

Comments on its authenticity and the name of the pattern are much appreciated.

 

Make it or break it!

 

Thanks.

[Sjef]

Here is a close-up of the stamp, which is different from the stamps I have seen so far in the TS topics (possibly a hand made stamp).

Because of the weave in the fabric the “S” in the picture looks like a serif font, but it is actually a sans serif font.

 

[Soar]

To me, the colour does look like a modern repro. The green and the secondary brownish-grey colour is very distinctively Tiger Stripe Products. Plus I have never hear of period hats being stamped US-M. But a nice hat all the same.

[Sjef]

To me, the colour does look like a modern repro. The green and the secondary brownish-grey colour is very distinctively Tiger Stripe Products. Plus I have never hear of period hats being stamped US-M. But a nice hat all the same.

 

Hi Soar,

 

Thanks for your comments.

In the threads on Tiger Stripes I see several items stamped US-S, US-M, US-L etc. (although these stamps look different) which are judged as being originals. see

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...st&p=358211

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...st&p=349908

 

Here is another picture in which the colours are closer to real life. hpe that changes your opinion

 

 

I must say I find Tiger Stripes a very difficult pattern to analyze. There are so many different types!

[kammo-man]

For me its a boonie meant to fool a buyer .

owen

[Spike]

I like the way it's made, bummer it's made from TSP material.

[Sjef]

For me its a boonie meant to fool a buyer .

owen

 

Damn it!!

Well it certainly succeeded in doing its job :crying:

At least I can now wear it on hot summer days without feeling guilty.

 

I will first do some more reading on the forum before buying a new old one.

 

Doing some maths I figure it must have been put together somewhere in Asia. If you had to have this tailor made in Europe or the US it would almost be more expensive than buying an original.

 

Thanks for your comments guys!

[kammo-man]

Sjef ,

I have been deeply thinking about your boonie last night and to be honest it has both good and bad points to it .

Bad .

The fabric print.

The fabric looks really like TSP 1st generation which for the time was fantastic .

Good ,

Construction is great .

Lining is ok .

Stamp Could of happened by a small manufacture .

Grommets do not bother me .

Now there is one small run of fabric that is similar but its hand screened and will fade with light wear , so in my opinion we are sitting at a 50 - 50 .

TSP was vat dyed making the print Very solid and hard wearing.

This is one hat I would need to have in hand to make the final call .

I am NOT asking for you to send me the hat at all but in a collector term ......in the hand applies here .

I hope this may shed a bit better light on your hat .

owen

[Beau-Brummel]

Sjef, what's It sewn with? try a burn test. if It's cotton or proper nylon that's a good sign. If It's poly I would say that's another nail In the coffin. I know where Owen Is coming from as this Is one of those that one would really want to handle. The grommets are \interesting an do bear a strong resemblance to some period ones. Owen posted his patrol caps and they are very similar to the ones that hold the adjustment ties. The big bug bear Is the fabric, but again as owen said It could be a smal run, tailorshop copy.

 

Yours, Guy.

 

 

Sjef ,

I have been deeply thinking about your boonie last night and to be honest it has both good and bad points to it .

Bad .

The fabric print.

The fabric looks really like TSP 1st generation which for the time was fantastic .

Good ,

Construction is great .

Lining is ok .

Stamp Could of happened by a small manufacture .

Grommets do not bother me .

Now there is one small run of fabric that is similar but its hand screened and will fade with light wear , so in my opinion we are sitting at a 50 - 50 .

TSP was vat dyed making the print Very solid and hard wearing.

This is one hat I would need to have in hand to make the final call .

I am NOT asking for you to send me the hat at all but in a collector term ......in the hand applies here .

I hope this may shed a bit better light on your hat .

owen

[Sjef]

Thanks a lot for all your effort Owen, much appreciated!!!

 

A short reply for now, I don't have much time (getting married today)

 

The fabric is a little stiffer than average in my opinion (I have a 6 color desert boonie which is also rather stiff). I don't know if this is good or bad.

 

Maybe someone can post a picture of a large piece of TSP (e.g. the back of a shirt) so I can compare the pattern.

 

By the way, I will not be very active on the forum for several weeks.

 

Cheers!

[kammo-man]

Its NOT the pattern its the cloth itself here that is the issue .

With screen printed tiger the print lies ON the surface of the fabric .

With Vat print it is IN the fabric itself .

 

 

 

Happy days on your wedding and I hope you find your best friend .

 

 

owen