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Tiger Stripes Part II


Bob Hudson
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vintageproductions

Gimp-What you are showing with your real piece is exactly what was on the auction.

 

Showing the fake items versus Spike's real piece is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

Next, and I have held off adding this. Back in the 80's when Tiger Stripe Products was just getting started and they had a wet dream about making stuff they came to someone who was a really good friend of Spike's and mine named Ron "Tiger Ronnie" Tapely, Andrei I am sure you remember the tiger man. At the time he was the "god" of Tiger Stripes and rare Vietnam camo. In fact Ronnie is how I got into the rag mills in the 80's, as you couldn't walk off the street and shop you had to be brought in by someone that would vouch for you. The owners of TSP came to Ronnie and he suggested the pattern that Spikey posted as even then it didn't turn up that often. So the first year was very close to this elusive pattern, then they went on and cut corners and started mass producing after this first run. What I am saying is the first run was copied IDENTICAL to a real pattern. After Ronnie helped them he then went on to help SOG Specialties make SOG knives but that is another story. So you don't need to preach to us on what they did, as we were there when it was being done.

 

Also, do you understand that everytime a bolt of material was printed there is going to be a slight variation? No matter how hard you try, there is always, at least with 50's through early 70's screen printed technology, be something slightly off, until you get to computer printing.

 

Lastly, do we need to start a seperate thread of just reproduction Vietnam camo? If so, say so and I will get one going. I hate to see this thread and part one getting mucked up with all this fake stuff. These two threads are incredible and there is nothing like it in the world to compare it with, because of the knowledge that is shown on ORIGINAL items.

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I know this one has run and run, and bearing in mind Bob's sage words above. But I would certainly have called the outfit in the auction as a repro. I dont in any way have the depth of experience of the senior members on the site, but I have handled a fair bit of the classic pattern. Every garment I have seen in this pattern - standard heavy weight, mid-weight flight suits and light-weight 60s hunting gear has always been very consistent from the point of view of the pattern design. And I have only seen the feature outlined in red in TSP items. That is not to say is it a repro, as it does 'look' right in other respects. But it is interesting if there was a wartime, Japanese produced, variation on the classic pattern like this,

 

It does appear the trousers are 5 pocket yet stamped with a 'US-S' size. I am sure this is possible, but again, not something I have seen.

 

An interesting one.

 

 

post-13485-1296257517.jpg

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My head hurts after reading the last few replies here. I'm sadly confused. I'd rather see fakes in a separate thread. That would really help new or casual collectors (like me) just as much as seeing the real ones.

 

Here's my contribution to the thread. I had shown this here before but not in this thread.

 

The set is from an SF friend of mine. This is my favorite pattern. I have no idea what you guys called it before the RJ book but I love it. I'd like to find a larger set someday. This set is AM.

post-15696-1296257974.jpg

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the original suit came from Tiger Ronnie .

 

what is there to say that has not been said ?

Nothing .

Tiger R, is a legend in TS collecting .

He had everything , seen everything , hands down ,had every pattern...

EVERY PATTERN EVER..........

thats why he was the GOD of tiger collecting.

Not to sound rude but he forgot more about tigers than most of us will ever know ............

 

 

 

 

soar ,

 

its the same old picture ,

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Great pic.

 

Just a general comment about this thread. I thought I knew quite a bit about Tigers, but I have learned a lot more about the finer points since joining the forum. Its a fantastic resource. And the, IMHO, having the repros on the thread can be really useful. And bit of vigorous debate is all part of the fun.

 

Tim

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Gentlemen!

 

THANKS Bob for the great info.

 

My comparison shows ONLY how close the listing set to the repro is or repro to legit items.

Every re-producer has a legit source, no doubt!

Don't drive to other dircetion with "stories" and "other part of stripes" like Spike does it. Distracting other (new) member when reading.

ONCE again Gimp is talking about THE one part, which request, which comes a lot on TSP.

 

So, if you guys CONFIRM that this request points exist on LEGIT war time tigers, i'm man enough to say open here, "cool thanks for the info and i have learn a little more"!

 

the request points are:

 

- the "dubious" part of stripe and the rest of stripe structures (not all, but some parts)

- double stitching/seams on the waist area

- 7 pocket US-CUT pants with button fly

 

 

Regards

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along the lines of tsp's and features. i had a very early set in an asian cut with single button pockets on jacket, pants had a period style waist not a jeans one. now that fooled me with the photo's i was supplied as features were not on regular tsp's.

 

i have seen early tsp's marked US-xxx

 

I have a early white lable TSP jacket myself with correct print as shown in this thread in a light twill that tears like tissue paper but it's don't look vat dyed as the green/brown is fading fast with British sun like i was wearing in LA ! The kinda only thing that screams repro are the daft camo bdu buttons they put on it , which i might swap over. But hey i only wear it every day with some blue jeans and a white t-shirt topped off with white sneakers.

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the original suit came from Tiger Ronnie .

 

what is there to say that has not been said ?

Nothing .

Tiger R, is a legend in TS collecting .

He had everything , seen everything , hands down ,had every pattern...

EVERY PATTERN EVER..........

 

soar ,

 

its the same old picture ,

 

 

Okay, let s say that the TSP is the exact replica from the set from Ronnie , the following pic with the TSP shirt auctionned in this moment by Mr Sgt Hulka is the proof

 

celrpv10.jpg

 

The next question is: could anyone show us the same stripe from his TS that he got directly from a Vet ? I know many advanced Vietnam collector are reading this forum, they probably have an IDed set that has this stripe. I look at my 5 sets of JWD (or Classic Tiger for old school collector) with different cuts, but I didn't find any with this stripe, but recognized that a pattern is quite large and one set can not represent all the print.

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Okay, let s say that the TSP is the exact replica from the set from Ronnie , the following pic with the TSP shirt auctionned in this moment by Mr Sgt Hulka is the proof

 

celrpv10.jpg

 

The next question is: could anyone show us the same stripe from his TS that he got directly from a Vet ? I know many advanced Vietnam collector are reading this forum, they probably have an IDed set that has this stripe. I look at my 5 sets of JWD (or Classic Tiger for old school collector) with different cuts, but I didn't find any with this stripe, but recognized that a pattern is quite large and one set can not represent all the print.

 

 

I also have several orginal JWD pieces in my collection and I had even much more allready in my hands in the last 20 years ;)

so I have study this pattern serious but I never ever have seen one with this special kind of print!?

 

in my opinion THIS print is just early TSP and I don't belief on a 3rd JWD wartime pattern!

that dosen't exist me that is just TSP!

 

mike

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post-532-1296345207.jpgpost-532-1296345243.jpg

 

OK, look at both of the patterns of tigers. The top image is REAL, NOT TSP!, material the bottom is silver or JWD. The shapes shown look same but they are VERY different in a number of ways. Is it possible that the pattern that the original TSP print was made from is from a not widely seen pattern? Is it possible that the pattern that all you guys are comparing the set with, silver or JWD, to the set on EBAY is a similar yet a completely DIFFERENT pattern? That would mean you really are comparing apples to oranges. There are other shapes that are on the pattern on the tp that ARE NOT on the silver pattern on the bottom. This doesn't necessarily mean that that EBAY set isn't a TSP set but my feeling is that it may very well be a pattern that is rarely seen.

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I would say some guys here sould better get one of his book first and get it study!

that will help avoid everybody mixing up completely different patterns like some doing here!

 

There are many good reasons for Jonsons pattern names and cut declarations!

Jonson did a very good job on his book so far and we all sould paying him a little bit more respect for his work!

 

 

thx

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My head hurts after reading the last few replies here. I'm sadly confused. I'd rather see fakes in a separate thread. That would really help new or casual collectors (like me) just as much as seeing the real ones.

 

Here's my contribution to the thread. I had shown this here before but not in this thread.

 

The set is from an SF friend of mine. This is my favorite pattern. I have no idea what you guys called it before the RJ book but I love it. I'd like to find a larger set someday. This set is AM.

 

 

nice late war light-wight dense pattern (LLD) shirt by the way!

 

for all who don't have Jonsons book....

 

...the garment cut is a N2B-EXP-2P

 

N - *Non-cuff* type straight sleeves

2B - *2 buttons upon each of the breast pockets

EXP - those buttons upon each breast pockets are *EXPosed*

2P - 2 pockets total upon this garment

 

regards,

 

mike

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First off MF, I have NO interest in getting that book and wouldn't waste my money on it. It appears I made a mistake with the names because I NEVER use RJ's names so DON'T tell me that I should buy that book. I have said it before, it was good effort for it's time but myself and others will NEVER refer to any tigers using Johnson's terms.

All I was trying to do was show the difference of particular shapes of a pattern and how even though they may look the same, they aren't. At least I have some of the actual material in question to try and compare the patterns. If I'm wrong according the Johnson book you guys worship like the bible, so be it, I have NO problem with it.

 

Why don't you guys who think that that EBAY set is fake do this......wait awhile, look at the sellers feedback from the winner of the tigers, might be someone on here, and ASK the winner to send more detailed pics, that should settle it once and for all. If it turns out to be a TSP set, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

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Bombe_Atomique

ok, it took me two readings of Spike's post to understand it.

but he doesn't say silver is the same as classic pattern (hey, no Johnson names!)

 

the other question asked here was if anybody has a classic set with the questioned stripe.

I'll go through all the pictures of classics posted here. Later.

Maybe I'll find one, or not.

 

And yeah, Owen's right, post some new pictures here!

Everyone.

More tigers! :)

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So, back to business. Came across this the other day on a website - I forget which. Think this might be one we would all lust after. Does it belong to anyone here?

 

post-13485-1296421345.jpg

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Thats a real beautiful custom made non standart fligt suit in VNMC 1st pattern print :w00t:

wish I had this one in my collection!

thx for sharing this beauty!

 

mike

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This last area of disagreement only re-enforces the need for a book on camo uniforms from Owen. His knowledge in this area is extensive and I am sure he could provide the collector community with items and information we have never seen. He has said that he is working with Roger Bender on this subject, but unfortunately this has taken years.

We need a thorough work on the subject of camo uniforms, especially from the Vietnam era! This forum, while good, is not concise enough or easy enough to search for information on this subject.

Owen, please increase your efforts in this area for the benefit of everyone!

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Lads ,

I am working on this project as time allows .

Its a different approach from the RJ book.

As it should be.

I am going to nail down patterns by years with both period pictures and modern uniform studies.

Tiger shall only be one aspect of this work as I shall cover WW2 items used during the first Indo china time frame and how these became what we know today.

So it will be a 45 to 75 story with a tiny what happened next section.

I will do my best nailing down what I have found during my travels into this complex story ,and dont forget any help by other collectors will be both needed and welcomed.

I myself have owned hundreds of items over the years but am lucky in knowing some of the other collectors who also have been quietly putting away special pieces that when viewed together will bind the complete story together.

Now who has some monster pattern ??????

owen

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