Ineligible for military service

[SergeantMajorGray]

I have just figured out that it is highly unlikely that I will be able to join the military because I have kidney stones or had them but that's not the point. It's depressing because it's all I wanted to do as a career and it's all my family has done. I have heard that exemptions can be made and I can still get in but I'm losing hope keep in mind I haven't talked to a recruiter yet because I just googled what can keep you out of the military. Is anybody on here a recruiter or someone that can help and I know this doesn't involve collecting so if this gets removed I'd appreciate a pm. Thanks, will

[Brig]

PM sent

[quack]

I can't really comment on your specific case since that would necessitate detailed examination of all your medical records. However, you need to be aware that the military concern is that some (many) causes of renal stones make you subject to their return in the future. For example, soldiers in the field are chronically dehydrated, and it is well known that dehydration causes stone formation in some people. If you have a stone attack in the field, that can not only be bad for you, but for whatever operation you are on, as you will probably have to be evacuated from the field.

 

Your first step is to take a look at Army Regulation (AR) 40-501, which contains the medical standards (I think Chapter 3 is for accession). It's available on the web. Find out if you are really disqualified by the regulation (be aware that a lot of people who will offer advice, such as your recruiter, do not really know in detail what the regulation says). A single stone in the past may NOT be disqualifying, but multiple stones probably are. Stones in both kidneys are disqualifying. You may want to take the actual paragraph involved to your doctor (urologist) and have him read it to see if in his opinion it disqualifies you.

 

If you are really disqualified, then talk to your urologist and ask him for a full analysis-- You will need lots of blood and urine tests, as well as X-rays. The question he needs to answer is "Is there an increased likelihood of future renal stone formation in this patient?" If he says that your previous stones were caused by a specific condition or event, which is unlikely to recur, then you have grounds for a waiver. He will need to put the results of that evaluation in writing to support any waiver request.

 

Chapter 1 of AR 40-501 includes information on waivers. Note that currently the Army is downsizing, which means that fewer recruits are needed-- that normally means it will be harder to get waivers than at other times. It is easier to get waivers in some cases if you already have some skills that the Army needs (e.g. Emergency Medical Technician/Paramedic training), rather than if you are simply trying to join as a new infantryman. So you may want to ask your recruiter what pre-accession skills might help you out, then go get them.

 

Good luck!

[SergeantMajorGray]

I was and still am a heavy soda drinker but I'm going to stop and I used to think water tasted terrible but I'm over that now and when I'm mostly drinking water in the military I doubt ill have a stone.

[m1ashooter]

Don't tell them if you don't want them to know.

[SergeantMajorGray]

I was unaware you didn't have to show your medical records I think I have this all sorted out now.

[lewis505]

Best bet is to go talk to a Recruiter - period. They'll usually ask a few questions in order to determine enlistment eligibility & may have you take a shortened version of the ASVAB to see if you will qualify. Be up front with whatever medical conditions that you may have, so that they can determine what the best course of action will be. Hiding a medical condition can lead to a medical discharge later down the road, and/or an investigation brought against your Recruiter by their chain of command. Recruiting policies/enlistment standards fluctuate during the fiscal year (those with GEDs/prior service being allowed to enlist, etc.) but medical standards do not. Part of the enlistment packet is the applicant signing a release of information to allow authorized personnel from Recruiting Command (USAREC) to obtain certified copies of any medical records related to an applicant that has pre-existing medical conditions.

 

PM me if you have any other questions - I was a Recruiter from 1999-2002 & will be happy to help

[bheskett]

I can speak to you from the other side. I too had plans to enlist when I was younger. I have a cataract in one eye that is inoperable. It was a hard pill to swallow as I felt it was my duty as a young American to step up to the plate and serve. Make sure you have a plan B if this does not work out. I was working as a book printer and that is where I stayed for 24 years, not a bad job but it wears on your body. So please have a plan B just in case.

 

Just my 2 cents

Good Luck and let us know how it all turns out.

Bob

[J_Andrews]

As my Sainted Mother said: "Plan B? What's your Plan C?"

[juvatwad]

Don't tell them if you don't want them to know.

 

There is that pesky statement you have to sign that states you are not lying with respect to the information you provide, including your medical history. I think it carried a potential 5 year prison sentence when I went in. Of course that may have changed....

Ian

[Brig]

Still is there, and I've seen a few people administratively separated for fraudulent enlistment, but never seen any jail time attached

[Jack's Son]

I'm sixty, and have the body of a 70 year old.....think they would notice??

[SergeantMajorGray]

I'm sixty, and have the body of a 70 year old.....think they would notice??

let's both join at the sametime and see who gets farther!

[quack]

I was and still am a heavy soda drinker but I'm going to stop and I used to think water tasted terrible but I'm over that now and when I'm mostly drinking water in the military I doubt ill have a stone.

 

 

I am afraid you are in denial--- it doesn't matter what you think. What's important is what a Urologist thinks. You need to be able to present a full medical workup which has as a conclusion that you are not likely to repeat. DO NOT hide your medical history-- as an old Commander, and medical officer, I have seen lots of bad effects of falsified medical history. With the attitude this post shows (along with your post at 1003), you are setting yourself up for significant problems. Check the regulations, see your doctor, and talk to a recruiter.

[rr01]

I'm sixty, and have the body of a 70 year old.....think they would notice??

I knew I had seen you somewhere before.

 

On the serious side as tough as it might be to accept you may have no choice. I am a long serving Civil Air Patrol member and nothing is tougher as a military retiree than to have to help a cadet male or female with the alternatives after they have been medically disqualified by the military. One young man who comes immediately to mind is now serving his home community as an EMT. When he found out he could not enlist he struggled but his strong character helped move him through it to an alternative that is no less meaningful. I'm not suggesting you put aside what you want to do but there might be a provenance of which you are not yet aware.

 

 

A question for the moderators, is there an "autospell" function in effect here?. I specifically and purposefully spelled the word "provenance" but when it posted that word defaulted to "provenance".

 

Let me see if I can get the proper spelling completed here: P r o v i d e n c e

[J_Andrews]

French Foreign Legion ?

 

No kidding, I once met an American Legionnnaire who had been a US Marine until cut loose for lung problems in the middle of AIT. A year later, after trying to fight it and get reinstated, he went to France and signed up in the Legion. He had had no lung probs thereafter.

[willysmb44]

I had a stone as a ROTC cadet. There's no history of that in my family, and I'd never really exercised hardly at all before that, so I took it as a reaction to doing things my body had never done before (I had a normal active lifestyle but never worked out before then and I'd been working out hard as a cadet for about 18 months before the stone caused me problems). I did lithotripcy (sp?) which supposedly broke up the stone (which was 9MM in size, they said I'd never pass one that big) but it all congealed into a mass which I passed a few days later. Needless to say, it was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life and I've had a lot of things happen to me since then. I have met very few people I'd wish that on!

After I finally did pass the remains of it, they looked at the fragments and couldn't determine a specific reason for them. The urologist told me I might be right about my body reacting to something I'd never done before as being active like that after never really being all that active before could have brought it on. I made a point of keeping hydrated as much as I could after that.

You could say I was lucky in that it all happened during Christmas break, so ROTC had no clue it happened. I failed the PT test that we did right after going back to school but I told them I'd had a nasty case of the flu over the break and nobody ever asked otherwise. I'm sure I'd lost a lot of weight at the time as well, I can't recall but people said they could look at me and tell I'd been sick.

I took a real gamble on all that, but that was just about 15 years ago exactly and I didn't have another stone in that time (knock on wood) so I guess I was right about it being from my body getting used to working out.

If you have them often, though, I'd seriously suggest another line of work. I was sick on active duty a couple of times with other things once I went active duty and I can assure you that you do get what you pay for with the 'free medical care.' I'd hate to think what I'd have gone through if that stone had hit me when I was in the field somewhere...

[SergeantMajorGray]

I don't have them often and I got them due to calcium build up from not drinking water but damn 9mm that's scary.

[willysmb44]

damn 9mm that's scary.

They couldn't believe it wasn't causing me any pain. I was passing blood but it didn't hurt at all. The painkillers wore off halfway through the lithtripcy thing, which was tough and when it passed, that mother passed probably as big as it could fit through the piping. THAT is when the sucker made up for all the pain they said I should have been having. I was almost delirious it hurt so much. Thank god I was living with my parents through college at that time, as they took me to the hospital. I can't imagine what could have happened if I couldn't have gotten to medical care, going through that much.

My wife's sisters have both had stones in the past and both have given birth. They both said they'd each rather go through childbirth any day instead of passing another stone, and one of them had a rough delivery. I think that says more than anything.

I truly feel for anyone who gets them a lot, but I assume most of those folks pass much smaller ones than I did if they get them a lot.

[SergeantMajorGray]

All that hurt for me was when it was leaving my kidney at the hospital I got morphine and that took care of that! but when it came to getting rid of it I didn't even know I did it. I had another one 2 years later but it didn't hurt to bad and I just stayed home I didn't even take any medicine so kidney stones are weird.

[willysmb44]

so kidney stones are weird.

Yeah, just like delivering babies, some women have no problems and fell very little pain, others almost die from what it does to them.

Anyone who toughs it out at home must not have large kidney stones. If I'd had to deal with what happened to me at home, I'd have shot myself for sure because it felt like I was dying badly at the time before I partially passed out from the pain (I have problems remembering anything beyond the initial wave of pain).

I had a boss at my office who'd had a stone once. He said he knew what it was, it hurt a lot and was lying in bed at the time. He then stretched out to reach a phone and apparently that lined everything up and he swore he could could feel it sliding right on through and the pain stopped right away. He said it was like the track had been greased and he could could feel it traveling through him but it wasn't hurting (I can't imagine what that'd feel like) as soon as everything lined up. It came out a minute or two later and he said he was fine. Had to be a relatively small one in such a case, I'd bet.

So like they say, your mileage may vary...

Ever see the HBO series, "Deadwood"? There's a sequence in there where the bad guy gets a kidney stone that isn't moving and the local doctor of course has limited ability to help him. I don't know if how they handled it is correct for that timeframe, but that episode really put things into perspective. It's really hard to watch if you've ever had a stone and know what the character would be going through. I'd go through what I had a hundred times to keep that from happening!

[SergeantMajorGray]

No I haven't but I'd imagin all they could do to help him would be to get him drunk but even then your still screwed back then.

[Jack's Son]

let's both join at the sametime and see who gets farther!

I'll keep'um distracted......you make a run for the "ACCEPED" line!