earlymb Posted November 24, 2012 Share #1 Posted November 24, 2012 (While not strictly a US outfit, I do believe there is enough connection to warrant a topic on this subject, but moderators if out of line please remove.)The Royal Netherlands Military Flying School was located on the military airfield at Jackson, Mississippi between 8 May 1942 and 15 February 1944. The school trained Dutch nationals for the various Dutch squadrons within the RAF and Royal Navy, as wel as the Netherlands-East Indies Airforce (NEI-AF).While under Dutch overall command, all instructors and training aircraft were on loan from the USAAF and the training itself followed the standard US method of Primary Training (PT) on the Fairchild PT-19A, Basic Training (BT) on the Vultee BT-13A and Advanced Training (AT) on either the North American AT-6 for fighter pilots and on the Beech AT-11 Kansan or Lockheed 12 for bomber crews. These planes had Dutch nationality markings but usually USAAF registration, as almost all were USAAF property. For the Operational Training (OT) the actual types the students would use operational were used. The OT was sometimes at another facility, such as Corpus Christi, Texas where Royal Netherlands Navy crews were trained on the Consolidated PBY 'Catalina'. A Lockheed 12 of the RNMFS at Jackson FieldThe ownership of the aircraft used during the OT was mixed. These were mainly Curtiss P-40 'Kittyhaws' and North-American B-25's 'Mitchells' and while some of these were (and remained) property of the USAAF, the RNMFS also doubled as a supply station and many brand-new B-25's that were purchased by the Dutch government in exile were delivered from their factories to Jackson Field. After completion of the OT the crews would then fly the very aircraft on which they trained to Australia to join the famous 18th Squadron NEI-AF at Batchelor Field, or to England to join the 320 (Dutch) Squadron, RAF. After the de-commission of the RNMFS all USAAF owned aircraft were returned to them, and most received new USAAF markings. B-25's of 18 Squadron NEI-AF in action.Most of the flight gear, uniforms & equipment used by NEI-AF crews was standard US, with some Australian and British items thrown in. The 320 Sq was part of the RAF, and as such crews were uniformed & equipped with regular RAF issued items.Both my grandfather and his brother were NEI-AF officers, although the spent most of the war as POW's in Japanese prison camps. My great-uncle was a 1st lieutenant pilot-observer and flew, among others, the Martin B-10, Piper 'Cub', Douglas C-47 and Fokker 'Friendship' for the NEI-AF and later the RNLAF. My grandfather also a 1st Lieutenant and a technician. He served with the 18 Squadron as a maintenance officer during the Indonesian war of Independance between 1945 and 1949. My great-uncle's NEI-AF pilot-observer wings, made in the US by Amico.I would love to see any RNMFS or NEI-AF-related items any member here might have in his or her collection!Greetz David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vostoktrading Posted November 27, 2012 Share #2 Posted November 27, 2012 Very interesting, thanks for posting this. Love those Amico wings! Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobrahistorian Posted November 28, 2012 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2012 David, I'm glad you posted this! I had it hidden pending Moderator review, but since US instructors did wear the wings you posted, consensus is that is within forum guidelines. Some great photos there and this is an aspect of US/Dutch history that many are not familiar with. Looking forward to more. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willysmb44 Posted November 28, 2012 Share #4 Posted November 28, 2012 Wow, great shots! Would also be interesting to see how these crews interacted with the locals. I bet the Dutch lads did quite well with the Southern Belles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted November 29, 2012 Share #5 Posted November 29, 2012 Fascinating, I look forward to reading more on the subject. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uplandmod Posted November 29, 2012 Share #6 Posted November 29, 2012 Same here, never even of heard of these flying Dutchmen! What a great story... Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted November 29, 2012 After the Japanese invaded the isle of Java in Dutch East-Indies (now Indonesia) on March 1st 1942 it became quickly clear the Royal Netherlands-East indies Army would not be able to stop them. The NEI-AF went to war with 80 Glenn-Martin B-10 bombers, 108 fighters, a small number of trainers and 19 Lockheed Lodestar transports. A few days before the surrender on March 12th all NEI-AF cadets undergoing flight training and their instructors were evacuated to Australia. A number of flight crews were already there to pick up the brand new B-25's (that were later 'hijacked' by the USAAF for their own use), and 11 of the Lodestars also made it with their crews and passengers, along with a number of individuals that made it to safety with other means. Unfortunately neither my grandfather or his brother made it to safety and spent the next 3 years in Japanese POW camps on Java, although both survived those and rejoined the NEI-AF late 1945. This mix of various types of NEI-AF personnel was the first batch to go to Jackson. Uniforms The first group from the NEI to go to the RNMFS wore their own uniforms, if they still had them. These were made of a green lightweight fabric known as 'Garut' that was extremely suited to the tropical climate. Although these garut uniforms were also made in the US by tailors for private purchase, standard US uniforms with Dutch emblems and buttons were issued in increasing numbers with the growing flow of students. I assume flight gear and equipment was standard USAAF issue, including A2 jackets. Unfortunately photos showing uniforms at Jackson are scarce. See here for pre-war NEI-AF uniforms: http://www.rathbonem...KNILPhotos.html See here for 1942-1950 NEI-AF uniforms: http://www.hetdepot....niformen03.html Markings The standard nationality symbol was an orange triangle pointing down with a black boder. It was soon found out this had to much similarity to the Japanese red dot, so it was changed to a large Dutch national flag (red/white/blue) while the planes themselves were OD green. After 1945 the green paint and arkings were removed and the Dutch roundels applied. Some more pics, mainly of B-25's of 18 squadron NEI-AF. I would love to do a piece on this highly interesting unit, but it may be outside the scope of this forum. Note the markings. NEI-AF Lodestar with the early war nationality symbol. Greetz David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siege1863 Posted November 29, 2012 Share #8 Posted November 29, 2012 I am the military historian for the Mississippi state archives and can tell you that the Dutch pilots are a revered part of the state's history. A local cemetery includes a special section (Dutch soil!) where the men who died in training are buried. There are also three children of officers buried there. The Dutch pilots had a reputation of being "hot doggers" (flying under bridges and telephone wires, "buzzing" the girls in the parks, low-level fly-bys over the water trying to scare fisherman, etc.). and many paid the price for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted November 30, 2012 Share #9 Posted November 30, 2012 Nice thread, David! Recently I took these pictures in the museum of the Netherlands Naval Aviation Service (Dutch: Marine-Luchtvaartdienst; MLD) in Den Helder, The Netherlands. This patch was Designed by the Walt Disney Studios especially for the Dutch (probably those attached to the Royal Netherlands Military Flying School). It depicts the wartime roundel of The Netherlands Air Forces (the pre war design being to the Japanese red sun roundel), and a gremlin flying a winged wooden shoe. The name tag reads Ovl. P. Burgemeestre. "Ovl." stands for "Officier vlieger" meaning Flying officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 30, 2012 Share #10 Posted November 30, 2012 So there's your next patch project Jeroen! (By the way, the Gremlins were created by one Flight Lieutenant Roald Dahl, RAF!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted November 30, 2012 Share #11 Posted November 30, 2012 And here are some pictures of nose art on Dutch planes, displayed in the museum as well. If I remember correctly the accompanying text said these pictures where taken in England. The text in the first nose art translates to something like "Dutch New Ones" which is the name for fresh herring caught early in the new fishing season. The second says "Old Boys" The last picture shows a Dutch soldier from native Indonesian descend, who somehow found his way to unoccupied territory and ended up in Europe. @David; my grandfather was in the KNIL as well, but he was in the infantry (Korps Marechaussee te voet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted November 30, 2012 Share #12 Posted November 30, 2012 So there's your next patch project Jeroen! You bet!! (By the way, the Gremlins were created by one Flight Lieutenant Roald Dahl, RAF!) Yes, I know. And how cool is that!! One of the best writers in recent history, which wrote some of the greatest stories for children ever and was a flying ace as well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted November 30, 2012 Those are some very special photo's you posted! The patch on the A2 jacket is commonly associated with the 18th Squadron NEI-AF, it is certainly not MLD so that display is incorrect although it is a gorgeous jacket. Aircraft from 320 Squadron are recognisable by the Dutch triangle symbol on the nose (for the rest standard RAF markings). Another pic, this one shows the flag marking nicely: Greetz David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-17Guy Posted December 1, 2012 Share #14 Posted December 1, 2012 Really great, and interesting thread. The B25 has always been one of my favorites and the two B25 photos in post #1 are interesting. The lead aircraft in the four ship has the aft turret, but also has waist and tail gun positions. I believe the last few D models produced had this mod. I also heard that the waist guns were not staggered like on the H and J models. Clearly the others in the formation are J's. That again for sharing, I have landed in Jackson and never known this piece of history about it. Best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101CH47 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #15 Posted December 1, 2012 The airfield mentioned is still in operation, originally named Hawkins Field it was renamed Jackson Army Air Base in June 1941. In 1949 it reverted back to a civilian airport and original name. I flew CH47s in and out of Hawkins many times while I was a member of the MSNG based in Meridian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted December 1, 2012 Really great, and interesting thread.The B25 has always been one of my favorites and the two B25 photos inpost #1 are interesting.The lead aircraft in the four ship has the aft turret, but also has waist and tail gunpositions. I believe the last few D models produced had this mod. I also heard that thewaist guns were not staggered like on the H and J models.Clearly the others in the formation are J's.That again for sharing, I have landed in Jackson and never known this piece of history about it.Best, John Hi John,you are correct. The front B-25 (N5-188) is a 'D'-model; the other 3 (N5-218, -230 & -226) are 'J'-models.B-25D N5-188 (construction nr. 42-87260) was delivered in March or April 1944 to the NEI-AF in Australia and went to the 18th Squadron. In May 1945 it was converted into a transport (TB-25) and went to the NEITS (Netherlands Indies Transport Squadron) in Melbourne, and then to the 19th (transport) Squadron. In 1947 it was re-numbered to M-388. In May 1948 it was severely damaged during an emergency landing and struck of charge.B-25J N5-218 (constr. nr. 43-27692) was delivered in April 1944 and went to 18 Sq. in June 1944. Re-numbered to M-418 in May 1947 and modified as a 'strafer' in 1949. It went to the Auris (Indonesian National Airforce) in May 1950.B-25J N5-230 (constr. nr. 43-28184) was delivered in the first half of 1944 (exact date unknown) to 18 Sq. On August 4 1946 it was shot down near Semarang, Java (6 killed).B-25J N5-226 (constr. nr. 43-27929) was delivered in May 1944. It served most of its time with 18 Sq. and was re-numbered M-426 in May 1947. In May 1950 it was transferred to the Auris and withdraw from use in 1957.Source: "De Nederlandse 'Mitchells'- De geschiedenis van de B-25 bommenwerper in Nederlandse dienst" ("The Dutch 'Mitchells'- The history of the B-25 bomber in Dutch service") by G.J. Tornij.This book also has a nice but not very clear picture of a Dutch B-25 crew with their American girlfriends at Jackson:I can't determine what uniforms they wear, buth they do have A2 jackets with the 18 squadron patch on the chest. The aircraft is B-25 N5-192 'Palembang I' (43-3426). It was delivered to the USAAF on September 10 1943 and transferred to the NEI-AF on November 23 1943. It arrived at the RNMFS on November 25 1943. It arrived in Australia in March 1944 but was transferred to the RAAF on April 24 1944. It was sold conversion to components on March 13 1950. Note the ''Gremlin in a wooden shoe'-nose art, also seen on the A2 jacket a few posts earlier.Greetz David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-17Guy Posted December 1, 2012 Share #17 Posted December 1, 2012 Thanks for the adding the extra information on the specific history of each B25. All of the J models in the pics are earlier serial numbers then the three I have flown personally (none of which saw combat). Great information again, on a little known piece of aviation history that occurred here in the US. Best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapitein Posted January 5, 2013 Share #18 Posted January 5, 2013 Great thread and nice pics! That Dutch Flying Gremlin Badge in Orange triangle is indeed an unoffical badge of the Royal Netherlands Flying School in Jackson Mississippi and is not the Sqn insignia of 18th NEI-RAAF although the crew of N5-192 wore it on their flight jackets and B25 nose art during training in USA. Any more pics know of this Dutch Gremlin? kapitein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted January 6, 2013 Share #19 Posted January 6, 2013 Anyone have any photos of the Mississippi Flying Dutchmen wearing GREEN uniforms ? I was once told that they had bush jackets made up in olive green (the old NEI army color) and some wore GREEN wool Class A's that were either tailor-made from USMC/USN Aviation cloth or were basic USMC/USN Avn garments simply modfied with Dutch buttons and insignia. All comments gratefully accepted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robswashashore Posted January 6, 2013 Share #20 Posted January 6, 2013 My late father, M/Sgt. William Gould, was stationed at Hawkins Field as a USAAF meteorologist during WWII. I remember him talking about the Dutch Pilots and what an impressive military funeral they had when one of them was killed trying to fly under a bridge on the Pearl River. Dad was from Boston, and while he was in Jackson he was introduced to a pretty college co-ed named Jean Kelly Barnett. They kept in touch even when Dad went overseas, and were married in 1946. It it weren't for the War and Hawkins Field my sister and I wouldn't be here today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjef Posted January 6, 2013 Share #21 Posted January 6, 2013 Anyone have any photos of the Mississippi Flying Dutchmen wearing GREEN uniforms ? I was once told that they had bush jackets made up in olive green (the old NEI army color) and some wore GREEN wool Class A's that were either tailor-made from USMC/USN Aviation cloth or were basic USMC/USN Avn garments simply modfied with Dutch buttons and insignia. All comments gratefully accepted! Dutch military personnel in the unoccupied countries mostly wore modified uniforms of their hosts (British Army, RAF, RAAF, US Marines etc.). The Dutch pre 1940 European dress was abandoned altogether. Most of those uniforms where captured and modified for use by the Germans. The olive green KNIL uniforms (made of cotton) were manufactured in the NEI and could not be replaced after the Japanese attack. They were gradually but rapidly replaced with allied uniform pieces. My grandfather as a KNIL officer wore an American Class A uniform with Dutch buttons and insignia just after the war, posted here http://www.usmilitar.../page__hl__knil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Garandy Posted January 6, 2013 Share #22 Posted January 6, 2013 A Lockheed 12 of the RNMFS at Jackson Field I believe this aircraft is a Beechcraft AT-11. Still a great picture though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted January 6, 2013 Share #23 Posted January 6, 2013 I am well aware of the adapted US uniforms, but I have been told that -- in the US -- SOME of the NEI fliers had GREEN garments, either made up by tailors OR USMC/USN types, modified. I am seeking info only of the NEI people, in the US, NOT quasi-RAF people in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickg Posted January 7, 2013 Share #24 Posted January 7, 2013 Great thread. Here some examples of Dutch Exile uniforms. I am deviating a little bit from the US theme but wanted to paint a complete picture on the various possbilities of Dutch (officers) exile uniforms which were basically obtained and tailored locally in the host country, following local patterns... The first example is tailored in Canada (Hamilton Ontrario) and made with matching pants in RCAF cloth but tailored with typical Dutch traits (shoulderstraps / cuff design). It belonged to an officer by the name of Brevet (which appropriately is Dutch for flying wing!). I pinned a Dutch Observer wing on it as the closest school to this tailor was for Observers..., part of the British Commonwealth Air Training Scheme Flying Schools which Dutch exiles also attended. Most Dutch who attended flying/ gunnery/bombardeer/observer schools in Canada ended up serving in England. (being sent from England to Canada for training). In the UK and Canada the Dutch used British style uniforms with Dutch insignia and buttons. The Dutch Royal Lion buttons on this Canadian tailored uniform were made by Guant in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickg Posted January 7, 2013 Share #25 Posted January 7, 2013 My next example is a basic US officers uniform as procured and used by Dutch officers while Stateside on duty assignment or training. This particular tunic is named to Officer Vogel. Not flying status but rather (colonial) Infantry (=bugle) and has the standard Dutch lion Nationality patch on the sleeve (like the earlier Canadian example) + Royal Dutch Lion buttons which are maker marked Montreal (Canada). It lacks the rank stars on the collar...(painted in for effect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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