Constabulary Posted November 20, 2012 Share #1 Posted November 20, 2012 I always thought these .45 clip cases came out in the 1950s but this one looks earlier somehow. Yet I never have seen these cases with OD#3 trim and carrying strap. Furthermore the pullout strap and the carrying strap are made of heavy duty canvas as used on Signal Coprs BG bags for example and not the thin type that was used on later cases. All other SMG cases from the 1950´s and 1960´s In my collection are entirely made of OD#7 canvas. I´d say it is not very common to find 1950´s equipment made of a mix of OD#3 and OD#7 canvas. So I wonder if these cases came out in WWII already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted November 20, 2012 Share #2 Posted November 20, 2012 I had a complete dark OD model many moons ago, but then some years ago I came across a similar model like yours in transitional colors albeit with the strap cut off.... I too wondered if it was an earlier production... Will post pictures tonight when I get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted November 21, 2012 Share #3 Posted November 21, 2012 As promised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted November 23, 2012 Interesting to see. Your has a wider belt loop and thinner OD#7 carrying strap. I do not have manuals for the M3 but I wonder which year they appeared in manulas for the 1st time. Some other oppinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMoose Posted November 23, 2012 Share #5 Posted November 23, 2012 This pouch lasted long enough to be made in Nylon. 8465-00-705-2438 Initially made for the Vietnam war, These were used with the remaining grease guns into the 80s and very early 90s in the tanks and truckers that still carried them as part of their load out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted November 23, 2012 Share #6 Posted November 23, 2012 I do not have manuals for the M3 but I wonder which year they appeared in manulas for the 1st time. Will check my WW2 manuals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted November 25, 2012 Share #7 Posted November 25, 2012 Will check my WW2 manuals... No trace of the bag in the 1943 manual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted November 25, 2012 Share #8 Posted November 25, 2012 Wonder where this seller got his info: http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=173516 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted November 25, 2012 Too bad, I have no manuals for the M3 Here is another one with OD#3 trim http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showphoto.php?photo=59656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted November 25, 2012 I just pulled out a 1966 dated and a 1975 dated case (cant find the 1950´s one) Look at their sizes, now I´m even more confused. The left one is nearly 2.5 - 3" longer that the other two. Johan, how long is your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted December 8, 2012 No one else? So this is pretty a pretty unique case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 8, 2012 Share #12 Posted December 8, 2012 Johan, how long is your case? Sorry, missed this... Will check tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted December 8, 2012 Share #13 Posted December 8, 2012 Care must be exercised on these spare magazine bags as there appears to be some confusion where these are concerned. I draw your attention to the specimen illustrated on page 205 of Doughboy to GI where it is stated that this bag is for magazines of the Thompson as well as the M-3 and M-3A1 smg's. While I have the greatest respect for Kenneth, we are all human at best. The specimen bag will NOT accept a full capacity of M-3/M-3A1 magazines even if mixed with those for the Thompson. The Thompson mags are shorter than those for the Greasegun, thus the need for short and long bags. It is interesting to note the designation of 'CLIP' on the long bag. In U.S. military parlance, any enclosed spring ammunition device is referred to as a magazine, while those without springs are clips. Jack Angolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted December 8, 2012 I have "Doghboy to GI", but the bag shown on page 205 is a differnt one. The bag shown on page 205 is the bag for the 30rd Thompson mags and not the bag show above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbinekid Posted December 8, 2012 Share #15 Posted December 8, 2012 Of course I can't find the pictures now but, on ebay I saw one of those bags in khaki/OD and the front was stenciled for M2 Carbine Magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted December 8, 2012 Share #16 Posted December 8, 2012 I have "Doghboy to GI", but the bag shown on page 205 is a differnt one. The bag shown on page 205 is the bag for the 30rd Thompson mags and not the bag show above. I used the bag on page 205 to draw attention to the length difference in the two magazines, thus the long and short bags shown in this discussion. Additionally, the reference bag is a WWII spare magazine bag for the Thompson. It is possible that the long bag shown in this discussion is for the Greasegun mags, while the short bags are for the Thompson mags. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted December 8, 2012 Share #17 Posted December 8, 2012 The "Grease Gun mag bag" came in when the M-3 SMG began supplanting the Thompson as on-board eqpt for armored vehicles -- that is, late 1943 at the earliest. Its nomenclature re "CLIPS" does not fit the established QUARTERMASTER system because it was an ORDNANCE item; it was not an item of load-bearing eqpt for individual soldiers. It got a PART NUMBER, per ORDNANCE usage, because it was issued as one (small) PART of the vehicle's "kit". To an ORDNANCE supply-cataloger guy, it held "CLIPS", and to him a magazine was something in the day room to read. Of course, it was roomy enough to accept the slightly shorter Thompson mags, as well as K Rations, grenades, comic books and schnapps bottles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted December 9, 2012 The "Grease Gun mag bag" came in when the M-3 SMG began supplanting the Thompson as on-board eqpt for armored vehicles -- that is, late 1943 at the earliest. Its nomenclature re "CLIPS" does not fit the established QUARTERMASTER system because it was an ORDNANCE item; it was not an item of load-bearing eqpt for individual soldiers. It got a PART NUMBER, per ORDNANCE usage, because it was issued as one (small) PART of the vehicle's "kit". To an ORDNANCE supply-cataloger guy, it held "CLIPS", and to him a magazine was something in the day room to read. Of course, it was roomy enough to accept the slightly shorter Thompson mags, as well as K Rations, grenades, comic books and schnapps bottles.... Well, that makes sense. Where else had tank crews stored their "clips" for the M3. Does not make sense to supply a SMG without magazine / clip bag. But its strange that you dont see these bags on WWII pictures. Of course, the bags may have stored in the tank but yet I have not seen any WWII pictures showing this bag in use. So when it is an ordnance corps item there should be an ORD catalog or bulletin showing this bag or a source where one can find the part number and nomenclature, right? I unfortunately do not have ORD Corps references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 9, 2012 Share #19 Posted December 9, 2012 Sorry, missed this... Will check tomorrow... Just slightly over 11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenm Posted December 9, 2012 Share #20 Posted December 9, 2012 As far as I understood you started seeing these in the new M4A3E8 and M26 Tanks, which were sent equipped with M3 SMG's. Which, of course, makes them a 1945 onwards item. The earlier tanks had M1A1Thompsons and their equivalent bags/pouches - just like all the ones that came out of the old Soviet Union, taken from the M4 Shermans sent to them and out into storage there. Cheers, Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constabulary Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share #21 Posted December 10, 2012 But the M3 came out in 1943/1944 already so where had they stored their magazines? I think that would be the only US military weapon I know they supplied without a proper magazine case. That does not make sense. Every other weapon had at least one type of "Magazine or Clip Holding Device" in WWII. Would be great to see a ORD part list, bulletin or early manual from these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 10, 2012 Share #22 Posted December 10, 2012 FWIW I've checked the Nov 1944 dated TO&E for a Tank Company and the bag is nog listed in the vehicle equipment, nor on the individual armed with a SMG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted January 1, 2013 Share #23 Posted January 1, 2013 Here is a little something I noticed about Thompson magazine bags I thought I would add to this thread. Now I am not sure of this theory mainly because I do not have an M3 magazine to test it but here it goes. In the photo I posted below are 3 Thompson magazine bags from my collection - The bag on the left is made by Boyt, the one in the center is made by H&C and the one on the right is made by Hoosier - all dated 1942. The Boyt and H&C bags are the same dimensions but the Hoosier bag is made deeper. I know 1942 is early for the M3 but since it was on the drawing board could it be they started to order these bags made deeper to hold M3 mags? (or is it just a manufacturers variation?) Again, not sure of this because I do not know how much taller the M3 mag is over the Thompson mag but I thought I would throw it out there for discussion. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted January 1, 2013 Share #24 Posted January 1, 2013 30 round Thompson mag inside the Boyt bag........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted January 1, 2013 Share #25 Posted January 1, 2013 30 round Thompson mag inside the Hoosier bag........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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