Warrant Officer Ranks

[Justin B.]

Another idea is it was locally made from a 2LT bar before offical-spec insignia were available. It's a great photo, too bad he didn't do the other profile!

 

From Quartermaster Corps, Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot Specification No. 226-A, August 1, 1942:

 

 

[Jamecharles]

I have to disagree a little bit. For the pre-WW2 dress blues warrant officers wore basically a plain coat: no shoulder straps, no cuff stripe. Shoulder straps were for "officers only," which in the regulations meant commissioned officers. The WO brown BoS color was shown on the trouser stripe, cap band and full dress belt. For the blue mess uniforms they wore the gold shoulder knots and the WO branch eagle on the cuff, no cuff stripe, and brown lapel facings

 

There was no rank device for WOs until Sept. 1942 when CWO was authorized, and of course dress uniforms weren't worn then. Before that, WOs were know by their branch insignia, cap badge and "plain" officer uniforms. After the war when dress unifroms came back, WOs were brought into line with commissioned officers with cuff stripes and brown shoulder straps with their rank bars.

 

Justin B.

 

Sorry my fault, with pre ww2 i mean mod 1936.

 

G

[Gregory]

Another idea is it was locally made from a 2LT bar before offical-spec insignia were available.

 

If locally made then not only in Panama but also in the UK.

 

In the meantime I found one more AAF WOJG bomber crewman with rectangular rank insignia. The photo below shows 379th BG, 8th AF, England, 16 July 1943.

[Justin B.]

That's great, Gregory. I love it when people can document non-standard stuff like that.

 

Justin B.

[Gregory]

Hello John and Justin,

 

Thank you for good words. Yes, discovering in period images something less typical is fantastic hobby I love. What is more, I like very much the subject of warrant officers. The common run of people know nothing about them and think that they were somewhere at the rears, maybe in staff and cooked tea for high command or were the couriers with documents. The people never know who WO was -- in their opinion neither EM, nor NCO, also not an officer, something in-between and odd. But WOs fought and died the same as all other ranks, they fought and died on sea, land and in the air. Reenactors forgot about WOs as well, I have never seen a reenactor who played WO. Oh pardon, I am reenactor GP something betweem Flying Sergeant and FO, i.e. also WOJG and CWO and I do have all things for such an impression.

 

When we discuss about WO ranks -- there were also painted ranks (or maybe decals?). Take a look at image below, from Normandy. Here it is a CWO with beautifully painted CWO rank on his helmet, but maybe it is a decal?

 

Best regards

 

Gregory

 

 

[Gregory]

...

[Justin B.]

Another great photo!

 

I have always been interested in WOs, too. When I was a kid talking to my grandpa about his time in Europe, he told me how he -- a college-grad draftee master sergeant with a wife and baby at home -- had turned down a direct commission to 2LT because he liked his job as regimental sergeant major and officers had more expenses that made the pay not much better. But, he said, he would have taken a WO appointment in a heartbeat. "They had the best of both worlds!"

 

Justin B.

[Gregory]

Here is something interesting currently listed on eBay -- Meyer-made FO insignia but not golden-blue but silver-blue

 

 

[Jamecharles]

Hi all i wanna show you my last find, it's named to Bacigal Paul B. (UPO), no date inside just the name (i was not able to find any info about now).

It's an example of BD pattern 37 for Warrant officers.

(I'm not sure of the hat badge, i found it in another lot and it's different from all i saw around , do to the pierced foliage near the arrows, in my opinion was also painted over of new gold, please tell your about).

 

 

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Ciao

Giancarlo

[Keith]

Was there a Female WO Nurse during WW2? I think these insignia all came together and have not been easy to research. Note that the Nurse pins do not match. Thanks.

[Justin B.]

Hi all i wanna show you my last find, it's named to Bacigal Paul B. (UPO), no date inside just the name (i was not able to find any info about now).

It's an example of BD pattern 37 for Warrant officers.

That is very interesting! I believe the straps were not regulation for WOs till after WW2, and then they should have had the CWO or WOJG rank insignia on them. A personal interpretation, maybe?

 

Was there a Female WO Nurse during WW2? I think these insignia all came together and have not been easy to research. Note that the Nurse pins do not match. Thanks.

I believe nurses were always commissioned officers. According to this the small number of women WOs in WW2 were band leaders and admin:

http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/Hist_Women_WO.htm

 

All WOs wore WO branch insignia, except flight officers who wore Air Corps.

 

This thread is in the Army section now but it has other services in it, too. In case anyone is interested, there are some pages on historical insignia for USN warrant officers here:

 

USN Warrant Insignia 1864-1916

USN Warrant Insignia 1917-1946

USN Warrant Insignia 1947-2003

 

Justin B.

[Keith]

OK, thanks.

[Jamecharles]

That is very interesting! I believe the straps were not regulation for WOs till after WW2, and then they should have had the CWO or WOJG rank insignia on them. A personal interpretation, maybe?

 

.......................................

Justin B.

 

Well, also if i was pretty sure i've duble check the regulation of 1938 here on forum first, and as you say is not clear if the warrant officer can wear the shoulder pad, after i've check the 1937 reg. i've here and it's clear without doubt that shoulders pad are allowed also for Warrent officer BUT without ranks sewn on them, here the page:

 

 

 

 

In my opinion if the reg want deny the use of something is clearly written (as per army circular of 1936, the early version of BD were the circular state that warrent officer didn't have the stipes and not the rank as prescribed on Circular on 1937).

 

the army reg of 1937 regulate the blue dress ''called'' m38 so the real final version of blue dress uniform was adopted with the circular n. 72 on 6 November of 1936 and after better regulated with circular n.7 of 21 January of 1937

 

PS: for all army reg of 1937 check here:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/198314-1937-army-dress-blue-regs/

[Justin B.]

Wow, that's great, I've never seen that order. You're right obviously for 1937, but then the straps were deleted for WOs by the order of 17 Aug, 1938. The Army sure was doing a lot of fiddling with its dress blues in those few years! You've got another rarity there! Thanks for the info,

 

Justin B.

[Justin B.]

These are kind of odd, I would be interested in opinions. They were listed on eBay as Beverlycraft WW2 fight officer bars. They're obviously not the regulation rounded shape, so I thought they might be a rectangular wartime variation as mentioned above. It is generally known that Beverlycraft was a wartime-only maker, member Tod Rathbone has posted some great research on the company's history here. But now I am not so sure. They are flat and measure about 1 1/8" by 3/8". Army bars were only one inch by the regs. The colored parts are recessed with a reeded texture, and are colored with what looks like a thin layer of paint, not like a deep enamel fill. The center gold band is about 1/4 inch, whereas for a FO it should be 1/8". The dimensions and color would be more correct for a USN WO-1 after 1954, but Beverlycraft should have been long out of business by then. I'm still leaning toward an early, non-regulation FO variant, but I don't know... Again, opinions are appreciated, thanks for looking!

 

Justin B.

 

 

[Justin B.]

On card, note typo!

 

[Justin B.]

Back with palm trees and very faint "BEVERLYCRAFT"

 

Image from eBay of Beverlycraft WOJG bars, with similar construction on the colored parts:

[seanmc1114]

I believe these are Vietnam era Army WO-1 insignia. They are pin-back and marked "H.L.R. STER."

[rlyoun3910]

Does anyone have info regarding the initial use of the "Eagle Rising " first represented at the Army Tank School, Ft Meade MD? Other than a few sentences from the WO history page offered by the WOCC, can anyone point to documents or any historical reference from the Tank School specifically? No, the military museum on Ft Meade does not have anything. The museum did not display a plaque regarding the retirement of the Eagle Rising, presented to them, as this was the birth place of the Eagle Rising representing the WO Corps. Seems like they would. Just let me know if you have an inclination or know of someone/something I can query. Stiver's painting, "The Quiet Professional" is of Warrant Officers instructing on the use of horse drawn caissons at First Army headquarters, Ft Meade.

[rlyoun3910]

I was just called and asked a neat question regarding the popularity and quantity of Flight Officer (FO) rank out in the market. Historically during WW II bombardiers, navigators, pilots on completion of their training were either commissioned a 2LT or WO/FO. The blue bars were similarly awarded to several other specialties: such as, glider pilots, service pilots, flight engineers, and gunnery control officers. Although the "perks" of each were similar (FO actually made more money than 2LT when in the combat zone), on a combat crew this distinction did not exist, frankly, but the question was asked quite often who outranked whom. This created a muddled history.

 

The practice of graduating sergeant pilots (their training having been authorized by Congress June 1941) depended on age and specifically education as standards set for the officer candidate program changed for all services, not lowered per se as suspected; so in December 1941 there were at least 400 pilots of staff sergeant rank on active duty and many hundreds more in the training pipeline. These rates were originally envisioned as service (transport, target towing pilots), they were soon in combat, and before long these so-called enlisted pilots were commanding crews including commissioned officers. Short of pilots, the USAAF again changed its general selection requirements for officer candidate pilots, and then became alarmed that it might be swamped with commissioned officers who were below the required education standards set in pre-war times.

Then on 8 July 1942, following a request to the 77th Congress, the President signed Public Law 658 firmly establishing the grade of Flight Officer for both pay and selection. One of the first graduates in November was famed Chuck Yeager. By spring the blue bars of an FO appeared among the ranks of bombardiers and navigators. By this time there were over 2,000 sergeant pilots still flying with the AAF; thus, headquarters directed that all should be given the rank of either 2Lt or FO. Which depended more upon local politics, a commanders subjectivity, rather than expertise, service time, or anything else. Eventually all were commissioned, mostly in the field.

 

The practice of "warranting" graduates of bombardier and navigator schools, however, continued throughout the war and, in fact, the law was not repealed until July 1947. There were approximately 32,000 Warrant Officers in the AAF, but a break down is not yet completed. The AAF did have, however, Warrant Officer rates in other jobs fields and specialties including intelligence and the WAAC for example. If you watch the recent movie "Red Tails" you'll notice a plethora of FO on the screen. Very accurate portrayal indeed.

[Justin B.]

Does anyone have info regarding the initial use of the "Eagle Rising " first represented at the Army Tank School, Ft Meade MD? Other than a few sentences from the WO history page offered by the WOCC, can anyone point to documents or any historical reference from the Tank School specifically? No, the military museum on Ft Meade does not have anything. The museum did not display a plaque regarding the retirement of the Eagle Rising, presented to them, as this was the birth place of the Eagle Rising representing the WO Corps. Seems like they would. Just let me know if you have an inclination or know of someone/something I can query. Stiver's painting, "The Quiet Professional" is of Warrant Officers instructing on the use of horse drawn caissons at First Army headquarters, Ft Meade.

 

I don't know anything about Fort Meade in particular, but when warrant officers were established by the 1920 Amendment to the National Defense Act of 1916, there was no mention of particular branches or corps, except that bandmasters would thereafter be appointed as WOs. On 16 Nov. 1920, the Secretary of War (via the Chief of Staff) ordered that the new warrant officers (other than those of the Mine Planter Service) would wear officer's uniforms minus grade and branch insignia and cuff braid, wearing only the officer's collar "U.S" and enlisted cap badge, pending approval of insignia specifically for warrant officers. War Department Circular 72 of 16 March 1921 announced the warrant officer cap and collar branch insignia in advance of the publication of new uniform regulations. On 14 Oct. 1921, new uniform regulations (AR 600-35) were issued which included the WO insignia.

 

If there is a specific Fort Meade connection, it's probably something that would have to be researched locally for that facility. Maybe, with the proximity to DC, the first insignia were handed out there? It would be interesting to know!

 

Justin B.

[patches]

I believe these are Vietnam era Army WO-1 insignia. They are pin-back and marked "H.L.R. STER."

A nice matching set Sean, I believe you will find that the H.L.R. is actually H.L.P. this is for His Lordship Products, the use of this hallmark would date this to the mid 50s-late 70s, but seeing its a pinback and sterling, probably makes it 50s, as a few companies still made some of their insignia in pin back then, like Meyer, one can see some of their DIs with the new 1954 coded shield 22M in pinback.

[Justin B.]

Also, the lighter, translucent enamel changes to a darker, opaque brown around 1965, so those were probably made approx. 1955-1965, and most likely earlier in that range as Patches explained.

 

Justin B.

[Martinjmpr]

This is a fascinating topic for me, thanks for all the info. A couple of my buddies became warrants, one of whom just retired last year as a CW4. He and I were E-6's together in 3rd SFG. We were both in Military Intelligence, and in 1995 he put in his warrant packet and got accepted. I had a warrant packet in, too for a different MOS (I was a 96B all-source analyst and he was a 97B counterintelligence agent.) Unfortunately this was during the time of the Clinton drawdown and there were no slots for 350B warrants (the specialty I was applying for) so I was "fully qualified/not selected." Instead I decided to leave active duty and go back to college and then law school but I often wonder how different my life would have been had that warrant packet been accepted.

 

So another question (since I haven't seen this come up in the discussion): It is obvious that during WWII, there were two WO grades, Junior WO and Chief WO. Some time in the mid- to late-50's, then, there were 4. When did the other two WO grades become authorized?

 

I know the enlisted "supergrades" (E-8 and E-9) were created in 1958, so was that the same year the WO3 and W04 grades were established?

[Justin B.]

So another question (since I haven't seen this come up in the discussion): It is obvious that during WWII, there were two WO grades, Junior WO and Chief WO. Some time in the mid- to late-50's, then, there were 4. When did the other two WO grades become authorized?

 

I know the enlisted "supergrades" (E-8 and E-9) were created in 1958, so was that the same year the WO3 and W04 grades were established?

Not quite a simple answer! The Career Compensation Act of 1949 changed the former "pay periods" of officers to pay grades, O-1 through O-10 for commissioned officers and W-1 through W-4 for warrant officers (and also created E-1 through E-7). But the legislation didn't authorize any new warrant ranks. So after 1949, an Army/AF WOJG was grade W-1, while CWO covered W-2, W-3 and W-4. So a CWO could advance to higher pay grades, but the title and insignia would stay the same.

 

A few years later, the Warrant Officer Act of 1954 created a separate rank for each of the warrant pay grades. The titles were as they are today: Warrant Officer W-2 and Chief Warrant Officers W-2, W-3 and W-4. Later that year a committee of officers from the four services decided on the silver and gold bars that would be color-coded for each service. The Army, of course, changed theirs in 1970. TIOH page on warrant insignia:

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/Heraldry.aspx?HeraldryId=15751&CategoryId=9186&grp=2&menu=Uniformed Services

 

Justin B.