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Warrant Officer Ranks


hhbooker2
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First off, you have a very nice collection.

 

IIRC

 

U.S. ARMY

 

WO 1 # 35, 67, 81

 

CW 2 # 36, 66, 80

 

CW 3 # 33, 65, (82 ?)

 

CW 4 # 34, 64, 83

 

Bill

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Great variety there!

 

#22, 23, 51 and 52 are USN, but not WW2. They were used from 1952 to '56 or '57. In WW2 warrant officers wore their specialty devices as pin-on insignia, silver for CWO and gold for WO. #22 and 52 are WO, #23 and 51 are CWO.

 

#24, 25, 58 & 59 are USMC, 1943 to late '50s, again not sure on the end date. #24 and 59 are WO, #25 and 58 are CWO.

 

#33-36 are army subdued, late '60s, W-1 to CW-4 in order.

 

#80-83 are army embroidered subdued, late '60s. possible VN made. I think #80 = CW-4, #81= CW-3, #82 & 83 = CW-2.

 

Thanks for the post,

Justin B.

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Thanks for this information.

 

The number 5 is named in the uniform regulation "Chief Warrant Officer 5 / Master Warrant Officer 4".

 

What is the different between this two ranks?

 

Michael

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Thanks for this information.

 

The number 5 is named in the uniform regulation "Chief Warrant Officer 5 / Master Warrant Officer 4".

 

What is the different between this two ranks?

 

Michael

 

Master Warrant Officer was an army program (approximately 1988-1991) that sent CW-4s through a special training course. Graduates became Master Warrant Officers and were senior to other CW-4s. It was kind of a lead-in for CW-5 before that grade was officially created by Congress.

 

To correct my post above: The effective date for the modern-style silver/gold and blue bars in the USN was November 1954. The USMC was probably around the same time frame.

 

best regards,

Justin B.

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  • 2 months later...
craig_pickrall

In addition to this thread here are three other threads that have information concerning Warrant Officer insignia in addition to other insignia.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=15937

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=16020

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=35591

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DutchInfid3l

Display board...

post-5589-0-06757700-1400687657.jpg

and the rest of my WO and CWO collection...

post-5589-0-55669100-1400687662.jpg

The set on the Meyer Card are pin backed, and the CWO4 on the white card are clutch backed, Meyer Should R Formed

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  • 2 weeks later...
Display board...

 

001-16.jpg

 

and the rest of my WO and CWO collection...

 

006-17.jpg

 

The set on the Meyer Card are pin backed, and the CWO4 on the white card are clutch backed, Meyer Should R Formed

IF the air force no longer used or had warrent officers, then why where the rank insignia for this group continued to be made. The ones embiordered on blue cloth woukd be the type that would be worn on fatique shirts from around 1965 on, since there was no more warrent officers why then this insignia. Could it be that there where in fact still warrent officers in the air force ?, i know it says there wern't any after 1958-59, but i know for a fact that this type of full colour insignia on blue was not worn in the 50s, only from the mid 60s on.

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...IF the air force no longer used or had warrent officers, then why where the rank insignia for this group continued to be made...

USAF warrant officers continued to serve on active duty long after 1958. This was discussed in several earlier posts on this thread (go back to post #23 and read forward).

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USAF warrant officers continued to serve on active duty long after 1958. This was discussed in several earlier posts on this thread (go back to post #23 and read forward).

 

OFFICIALY, yes but they where CWO 4, im talking about the juinor grades of warrent officer, the where officialy not a rank group, but there are examples of their rank from the 60s the full color on blue. So where there a limited number still in the air force during the 60s ?

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...OFFICIALY, yes but they where CWO 4, im talking about the juinor grades of warrent officer, the where officialy not a rank group, but there are examples of their rank from the 60s the full color on blue. So where there a limited number still in the air force during the 60s ?

As for "OFFICIALLY," you can ask the USAF about that.

 

Logically speaking, however, it seems evident that USAF warrant officers other than grade W-4, whether active, reserve, and/or retired, existed after 1958, even though the Air Force stopped appointing new warrant officers in that year. It has been plausibly suggested elsewhere on the Forum that retired USAF warrant officers (grades W-1 through W-3) account for the seemingly anachronistic insignia for those warrant officer grades (link here). Therefore, even if all serving USAF warrant officers (W-1 through W-3) had been instantly advanced to W-4 in 1958 (which has not been proved on this Forum), this would not account for USAF warrant officers retired before 1958.

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  • 4 months later...
Can anyone can show Me a photo (no typed statement ~ please) of the page(s) in ARMY Regulations; that state WO are addressed as SIR? I'd also like to see regulation about "commissioned" WO; as I am not familiar with that change.

 

>>> I had two good Friends who were WO helicopter pilots (101st Huey Medi-vac, & a CH-47 pilot): We called each other by Our first Names; unless in the presence of EM.

 

Bob,

You're unlikely to find a statement spelling out WO's are to be addressed as sir. WOs are officers and therefore fall into the same generic category as all other officers -- i.e. males addressed as "Sir" and females addressed as "Ma'am".

 

I believe the commissioning of Army WOs back in the 1980s was to put them into alignment with Navy, USCG, and USMC warrants who were commissioned. Sidenote: for whatever reason, USN, USCG, and USMC do not have WO1's. Their CW2-CW5s are all commissioned.

 

Army warrant officers do not salute each other -- i.e. WO1s do not salute CW5s, etc. I have no idea if this practice extends to other branches or not? We tended to almost always refer to each other by first names. Conversations with EMs or RLO's (real live officers -- e.g. 2LT and up) had some formality with reference to Mister Smith, Ms Jones, etc. The only time I recall formal rank being used was at awards or promotions -- i.e. CWO-2 Smith is hereby promoted to CWO-3, etc.

 

Regarding USAF Warrant Officers. While the USAF currently has no serving warrants, the rank still exists. USAF just opts to not use it.

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teufelhunde.ret
Sidenote: for whatever reason, USN, USCG, and USMC do not have WO1's. Their CW2-CW5s are all commissioned.

Yes we do, see post #49 above. The words coming from the "real deal" BTW, its not CW its CWO

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Yes we do, see post #49 above. The words coming from the "real deal" BTW, its not CW its CWO

 

I spent 12 of my 23 years as an Army warrant officer so I'm pretty sure it's CW in the Army. My nametags for my flight suits have always been WO1, CW2, CW3, etc. Never CWO-2, CWO-3, etc.

 

Can't comment too much on the USN/USMC warrants beyond what I was told back in the mid-1980s. At that point, at least according to the Army, the USN/USMC/USCG had no WO1s. Maybe that's changed in the past two decades or so?

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Found this blurb referencing (then) USN practice regrading WO1's:

In 1975, the Navy ceased utilizing the rank of Warrant Officer 1 (WO1), also known as pay grade W-1, because chief petty officers in pay grades E-7 and above with many years in service would lose pay when appointed to the rank of Warrant Officer. The Navy appoints their warrant officers directly to the rank of CWO2 (i.e., as chief warrant officers), considers them as "commissioned" officers, and manages all grades (CWO2 through CWO5) by billets appropriate for each rank. In past years, some CWOs resigned their warrant commission prior to retirement in order to receive greater retirement pay at their former senior enlisted rank.[4] However, this pay disparity has effectively disappeared in recent years and all Navy CWOs now retire at the appropriate officer grade.

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Found this blurb referencing (then) USN practice regrading WO1's:

In 1975, the Navy ceased utilizing the rank of Warrant Officer 1 (WO1), also known as pay grade W-1, because chief petty officers in pay grades E-7 and above with many years in service would lose pay when appointed to the rank of Warrant Officer. The Navy appoints their warrant officers directly to the rank of CWO2 (i.e., as chief warrant officers), considers them as "commissioned" officers, and manages all grades (CWO2 through CWO5) by billets appropriate for each rank. In past years, some CWOs resigned their warrant commission prior to retirement in order to receive greater retirement pay at their former senior enlisted rank.[4] However, this pay disparity has effectively disappeared in recent years and all Navy CWOs now retire at the appropriate officer grade.

Yep, a good friend of mine who, coincidentally was pictured in that grouping of photos in the "Swiatacho" thread became a warrant and then resigned his commission because his pay as an E~9 was higher. Of course he could have stayed longer and been promoted ergo making more in retirement but I think old injuries started to catch up. Anyhow, he was in a group of former in Army enlisteds who fell into that same unanticipated grey area regarding pay differences.

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"GREETINGS & SALUTATIONS!" The main thrust of my collection is that of foreign and United States Armed Forces warrant officer rank insignia past and present. I can never find enough variations, can you? A warrant officer was considered neither fowl nor fish, somewhere between enlisted grades and commissioned ranks; or is it the other way around? Below is a raised fake gold bullion embroidery metal bar with the centre filled with blue enamel, worn by U.S. Marine warrant officers, maybe U.S. Mavy too before WW2? Then there are the embroiered cloth rank insignia for the first style of U.S. Army warrant and chief warrant officers. Also Vietnam era warrant officer cloth badges. :w00t: Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California ( [email protected] )

 

Here is a WW1 or prior Chief Gunner Frock Coat showing the sphirical shell with star embroidered on it.

post-8009-1324759971.jpg

post-8009-1324759992.jpg

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Here is a WW1 or prior Chief Gunner Frock Coat showing the sphirical shell with star embroidered on it.

 

Here is a set of 1898 - 1905 Chief Boatswain's shoulder straps.

 

Tommy

post-8009-1324760209.jpg

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One of the things that has always intrigued me about warrant officers is the profound difference between Army aviation warrants and pretty much all the others, regardless of branch.

 

I had very few dealings with non-aviation army warrant officers (or warrants of any branch of service). I've often wondered what a senior E-7 turned CW2 thought of his 21-year-old aviation counterpart?

 

For the USN/USMC/USCG guys: what is the relationship between warrants in the other branches? I posted previously that Army warrants don't salute each other. How does it work between senior/junior warrants in the other branches?

 

I did read that the USN is experimenting with warrant officer pilots for non-fighter aircraft (P-3, helos, etc). I'm not sure if this was intended to replace/supplement the LDO program (if that program still exists)? Pretty amusing stuff for me to read as the Army has obviously had tremendous success with its aviation warrant officers. No idea why there is so much trepidation with the other services. I suspect it has more to do with "officer class" being threatened than anything else.

 

Having been both a USAF officer and Army warrant officer, I can say with confidence that the aviation WO rank is the best thing ever created. As commissioned officers move into the field grade ranks, they spend more and more time in non-flying/non-operational posts -- especially when needing to fill command spots for promotion requirements, etc. Warrant officers, on the other hand, are professional aviators and their entire careers are centered around flying. In my day, you became an instructor pilot, aviation safety officer, or aviation maintenance/armament officer. There were professional development requirements for promotion but nothing that took you out of the cockpit.

 

Considering the universal complaining by USAF and USN pilots about not flying much after hitting O-4, you'd think these guys would welcome some form of warrant officer or LDO program.

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I had very few dealings with non-aviation army warrant officers (or warrants of any branch of service). I've often wondered what a senior E-7 turned CW2 thought of his 21-year-old aviation counterpart?

Probably about like senior E-5's and E-6's with many years of service felt about the 20 and 21 year old "Shake 'N' Bake" sergeants and staff sergeants with nine months in service produced by the NCO Candidate Courses during the Vietnam War. Apparently not much until they realized they were no threat career-wise but simply an expediency brought on by the needs of the war.

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In 1975, the Navy ceased utilizing the rank of Warrant Officer 1 (WO1), also known as pay grade W-1, because chief petty officers in pay grades E-7 and above with many years in service would lose pay when appointed to the rank of Warrant Officer.

 

I went from E-6 to W-1 in 1967 with 12 years service, and lost some money. BUT my base pay went up, therefore so did my retirement. I lost proficiency pay, subsistence, and uniform allowance.

 

The killer was taking the $200.00 uniform allowance and getting all the stuff we were required to have. Thank heaven for thrift shops. So if you come across a uniform with Col. Jones marked on the lining and Warrant Officer brass it just might be genuine. :rolleyes:

 

Cheers:

 

Paul

Salome, AZ

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have the Warrant Officer branch insignia which are very unusual. One has the eagle looking to the left. Has anyone ever seen one like this? Is this some sort of variation?

post-67292-1326775178.jpg

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I have the Warrant Officer branch insignia which are very unusual. One has the eagle looking to the left. Has anyone ever seen one like this? Is this some sort of variation?

Warrant officer collar insignia in right- and left-facing pairs were authorized from 1923 to 1926 (source: Emerson's Encyclopedia of United States Army Insignia and Uniforms, pp. 391— 392).

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...I bought a pair in Clothing Sales in 88/89...

Can anyone doubt that counter-facing sets of warrant officer insignia were made after 1926? (And worn?) However, reviewing uniform and insignia regulations and The Officer's Guide editions published from the beginning of WWII until modern times we see just one design of warrant officer insignia, the one with the eagle facing its military right. Although warrant officer insignia is obsolete today, TIOH keeps a legacy article about it on its Web site (link here). It is interesting to read there that the warrant officer insignia was briefly discontinued in 1943 in furtherance of a plan that had warrant officers wearing branch insignia of the Army's basic arms and services, which is the system in use today.

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