Johan Willaert Posted November 12, 2012 Share #101 Posted November 12, 2012 Couldn't agree more.... I have learned not to interfere with Ebay auctions a very long time ago... Even bidders don't always appreciate your opinion and help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4uvv Posted November 12, 2012 Share #102 Posted November 12, 2012 I agree. I attend local area auctions in central VA.. Almost all auctioneer's websites in my area will list terms and conditions one of which specifically states that it is BUYER'S responsibility to investigate an offered item(s) and make his own decision regarding whether or not to bid on the item. Honest auctioneers down this way will tell you what they know about the item before the bidding begins. Two months ago I attended an auction which included some military items i.e, German and Japanese bayonets, German and US swords, captured Japanese battle flag, etc. The auctioneer's website erroneously had listed one bayonet as a WW!! German bayonet. It was not. It was a WWII Japanese bayonet. It was not my responsibility to educate my bidding competition. I was the successful bidder on that and most of the other military items offered. I had no problems with any item I successfully bid on as I had done my research before the auction. The mislabeling was an honest mistake made by someone prior to the auction who was not familar with military items.. In my area conversely after am auction ends if a mistake was made and the auctioneer agrees he will accept a return of the item for a subsequent auction and refund the bidder's money.. I saw it happen at the aforementioned auction. A serving platter was identified by the auctioneer as "sterling silver" when in fact it was silver plated. The bidder told the auctioneer after his successful bid; the auctioneer agreed, apologized for the error and refunded his money. The autioneer auctioned over 200 items from 9AM to 4PM non-stop that day and made an honest mistake. So Buyer Beware. I don't feel sorry for any of the bidders. Again it is their responsibility to investigate, which includes asking questions of the seller, before the auction ends. Ebay will get 9% fees on the total sale price. At a $20,000 final sale price that is slightly less than $2,000. Ebay might not favor user forum "gratuitous assertion" complainers without offering companion proof of misrepresentation or deliberate fraud and immediately cancel or subsequently void the auction. Value of an item or items is what someone is willing to pay for it/them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 12, 2012 Share #103 Posted November 12, 2012 JS That is a beautiful story. If it were only true. And now you know the rest of the story.M But Manny......it was a fun fairy story, someone would have believed it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted November 12, 2012 Share #104 Posted November 12, 2012 W4 what if there is an auctioneer who knowingly is selling fakes ? Let him continue ? I'm not talking about accidents here. There are many in the hobby who go out of their way to fool the collector. What to do about them whether on ebay, a show or where ever ? I know if you are purposefully selling fakes on this forum you are done. That is a great rule. Why should we burry our heads in the sand ? We are telling thieves " oh it's my fault I didn't know enough ". Keep on selling your fakes. Imagine if we applied that type of thinking to all aspects of life. It's like saying it is OK. It's against the law to sell a Rembrandt fake as real but in our hobby it's my fault if I buy a fake. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave peifer Posted November 12, 2012 Share #105 Posted November 12, 2012 the sad truth is as determined as these buyers are i doubt if they could be swayed even if you could talk to them and voice your opinion.as far as alerting e-bay i believe that has been tried before,with no positive results.bottom line is everyone is responsible for there own research and education on these items.i have known some old time collecters who would become openly hostile if told an item of theirs was something less than original............dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121eagles Posted November 13, 2012 Share #106 Posted November 13, 2012 Some collectors like to buy a story more than an item or group of things. They will convince themselves that the story is possible even if only so remotely. They often get mad if you question the story because they are emotionally and financially invested in it. Forgers and con artist have been selling/misrepresenting collectables since the beginning. At some point buyers have to be accountable for their buys. In reality we are talking about worthless stuff here. There is no value to it other than what one will pay for it. It's obsolete old military stuff manufactured by the thousands or millions. If people want to invest large amounts of money in it, so be it but I would not advise it. The best thing this forum can do is keep educating collectors. The person who buys this will never be able to sell it for a fraction of what he paid for it. Everyone will know the story. There only chance is the "dumber than I" theory which is there has got to be someone dumber than I (that does not read this forum or has more money than sense) that I can off load my mistake on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted November 13, 2012 Share #107 Posted November 13, 2012 The ascot/scarf is from the 508th Airborne Regimental Combat Team's days in Japan (1956) as is the loose bullion devil patch. If you look closely you can see the ascot patch has that typical hand guided machine made Japanese patch style. it's too bad they were paired with this group as both are nice pieces by themselves. As someone mentioned earlier the oval is indeed post war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted November 13, 2012 Share #108 Posted November 13, 2012 Education is just part of the solution. The other part is making it uncomfortable for people to sell fakes. It is that plain and simple. If nothing is done things will only get worse. It is the same with any form of negative behavior that is left unchecked. The person who is really hurt by this laissez faire attitude is the new collector. OK folks that's it for me and this topic. Good luck if you haven't found this forum and I hope you can afford to stay in there until you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 13, 2012 Share #109 Posted November 13, 2012 A picture paints a thousand words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 13, 2012 Share #110 Posted November 13, 2012 A picture paints a thousand words.... This is one time Ian, when you DON'T want to flush!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 13, 2012 Share #111 Posted November 13, 2012 This is one time Ian, when you DON'T want to flush!!! Amen Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4uvv Posted November 13, 2012 Share #112 Posted November 13, 2012 Obviously if an auctioneer is deliberately selling fakes he should be exposed, avoided and appropriate complaints filed with the BBB or appropriate licensing and/or law enforcement. Auctioneers are licensed in most if not all states. As with any business the buyer (bidder) should "do his homework" and research the reputation of the auctioneer the same as researching a car dealership before buying a car. Hence the term "Buyer Beware". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted November 13, 2012 Share #113 Posted November 13, 2012 There is no Easter bunny, no Tooth Fairy & no Santa Claus. I figure that if I'm going to ruin your day I may as well do it good. Say it isn't so! I can buy the Easter bunny and the Tooth Fairy, but Santa Clause! Argh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z19 Posted November 13, 2012 Share #114 Posted November 13, 2012 And I am quite sure that the 82nd did not do MP duty at the Nuremberg trial. It was the 508th MP battalion which had no connection to the 82nd AB or 508th PIR. I'm a little late to the party it seems. The 508th did have MP duty after the war, but it was limited based on what I know. I have some killer photos of a 508th guy on MP duty riding a Harley!! How do I know he was 508th? I bought all his stuff from his son about a year ago after he passed. With that said, I'm with you guys as I do not think they had any Nuremberg duties. The next thing, I knew about this grouping well over a year ago but never got to see it in person. It currently resides maybe 60 miles from me and the owner told me he got it from the family many years back. Don't shoot the messenger as thats the extent of my knowledge about the group. I didn't even know he was selling until a buddy sent me a link to it a couple days ago. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastpost Posted November 14, 2012 Share #115 Posted November 14, 2012 Currently at $15,900 and still not meeting the reserve...I don't think the reserve will ever be met. It looks to me like this "seller" is trying to determine what this bunch of stuff is worth on the open market - or perhaps more correctly what someone is will to pay for it - without actually selling it. I have seen other sellers do the same thing. As far as policing Ebay? Forget it. Not only is it impossible to do but completely impractical too. Anyone that would bid almost $16,000 Yankee Dollars on anything that they can’t examine personally first is nuts and I have found through personal experience that you can never save them from themselves or a bad decision. Every collector gets taken at some point in their collecting career and most lean from their mistake(s) and are the better for it in the end. It there is a buck to be made then there is always a huckster willing to sell just about anything to the unsuspecting or the ill-informed. They are like roaches – you stomp on one and twenty more will take their place. Live and learn and just hope it does not cost you $15,900+ dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 14, 2012 Share #116 Posted November 14, 2012 ....... Live and learn and just hope it does not cost you $15,900+ dollars.[/color][/size][/font] AMEN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16chief Posted November 14, 2012 Share #117 Posted November 14, 2012 Somebody is really going to take it in the shorts on this deal!!! I dont see one scrap of paperwork with this vets name on it. I have a vet direct 101st AB group, and i have all his paperwork from jump school certificate to discharge. And whats with the parachute cap patch and not the combined patch. It does not appear with the amount of campaign stars that this vet was a original to the 82nd. A campaign star on the wings and no invasion arrowhead on the EAME ribbon? Like i said this one is going to hurt!! Only 2 and a half days left people, get bidding!!!!! hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted November 14, 2012 Share #118 Posted November 14, 2012 Anyone that would bid almost $16,000 Yankee Dollars on anything that they can’t examine personally first is nuts and I have found through personal experience that you can never save them from themselves or a bad decision. Whatever other arguments may be made pro or con for grouping, no truer point has been made in this discussion. Of course at this point it is very likely the reserve will never be met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave peifer Posted November 15, 2012 Share #119 Posted November 15, 2012 15,900 reserve not met,it seems the bidding stopped.maybe someone got the message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 15, 2012 Share #120 Posted November 15, 2012 WHEN WILL THIS MADNESS STOP?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted November 15, 2012 Share #121 Posted November 15, 2012 WHEN WILL THIS MADNESS STOP?? In 1 day 17 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 15, 2012 Share #122 Posted November 15, 2012 In 1 day 17 hours Cute!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4uvv Posted November 15, 2012 Share #123 Posted November 15, 2012 It will stop when the auction end time occurs. The real bidding remaining action will begin within a few minutes of the end time. All bidders will have a maximum bid amount entered and each activates his next higher bid the computer will increment based on maximum bid amounts still not met by whomever until the clock runs out. The incremental jumps will happen very fast. Don't be suprised to see this group to sell for close to $20,000 if the reserve has been met. If somebody has bid $16,000 already another $4,000 could be expected. If the reserve was not met the seller knows what the traffic will bear and may list the group again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted November 16, 2012 Share #124 Posted November 16, 2012 Yes I'm back I couldn't stay away no matter how much I disagree. It's up to 16,000 reserve not met. Everyone see all the additional pictures he posted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted November 16, 2012 Share #125 Posted November 16, 2012 Is he feeling Cocky.....or Guilty??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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