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28th Infantry Division Artillery Officer Tunic - How did I do?


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Another Etsy score from the same seller I got my Americal Division jacket from. I'm particularly excited about this one, cause I have multiple relatives that served in artillery units. So artillery related pieces hold a special place in my heart. I'm anxious to get it, better pictures will follow once its in my hands.

 

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Looks fine to me. If there's a name in it, you might be able to figure out what DUI's should go on it. Not a certainty, but it probably did have DUI's. A match for the missing captain bar should be easy to find.

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Aren't those Coast Artillery collar insignia? Or did AA units also wear these? Btw, is it named?

 

 

AAA units wore the CAC insignia.

 

RC

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Despite the victory and occupation ribbons, that officer's blouse likely dates from the early or even pre-war period as it has the brass hooks intended to support a leather Sam Browne belt. These became obsolete around '41 I think, and were replaced by the cloth belt with gilt buckle. Is there a dated label in the blouse?

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AAA units were initially composed of Costal artillery units. The idea was that CA men were trined at foring at "moving targets," although a great deal of it was that they realized the CA was not really that important anymore.

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Looks fine to me. If there's a name in it, you might be able to figure out what DUI's should go on it. Not a certainty, but it probably did have DUI's. A match for the missing captain bar should be easy to find.

Aren't those Coast Artillery collar insignia? Or did AA units also wear these? Btw, is it named?

 

Thanks for the reply's. The seller didn't mention a name in his description, but I'm gonna message him and see if he has any info on it.

 

 

 

AAA units wore the CAC insignia.

 

RC

 

Thank you for this info, My grandfather landed on Attu as a member of the 78th Coast Artillery Regiment, and eventually ended up in the 591st AAA Bn. So I have some experience with this. However I can find no evidence of the branch disc he wore. I only found US discs with his things, and in all of the picture that you can see the discs, he is wearing 2 US ones, So thanks again for clearing that up.

Despite the victory and occupation ribbons, that officer's blouse likely dates from the early or even pre-war period as it has the brass hooks intended to support a leather Sam Browne belt. These became obsolete around '41 I think, and were replaced by the cloth belt with gilt buckle. Is there a dated label in the blouse?

 

Wow thank you, I had no idea. Seeing the occupation ribbon led me to believe it would date to later in the war. I also had no idea about the hooks in the back. I knew they were for a belt, but I didn't realize they were for the Sam Browne. I have seen a few of those sell and they aren't cheap. The hooks are also on the Americal division jacket I have dated 1940. As for a tag the seller didn't mention one, and I don't have the jacket in my possession yet, so I will have to get back to you on that one.

AAA units were initially composed of Costal artillery units. The idea was that CA men were trined at foring at "moving targets," although a great deal of it was that they realized the CA was not really that important anymore.

 

Makes sense, Thanks man!

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Enlisted Men continued to wear a brown leather garrison belt until it too was dropped from the regulations, hence early and pre-war 4-pocket coats tend to have similar brass hooks fitted.

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Enlisted Men continued to wear a brown leather garrison belt until it too was dropped from the regulations, hence early and pre-war 4-pocket coats tend to have similar brass hooks fitted.

 

Thanks again for the wonderful information! I haven't had the privilege of handling many WWII era uniforms so the help from this forum is invaluable.

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Despite the victory and occupation ribbons, that officer's blouse likely dates from the early or even pre-war period as it has the brass hooks intended to support a leather Sam Browne belt. These became obsolete around '41 I think, and were replaced by the cloth belt with gilt buckle. Is there a dated label in the blouse?

I don't know anything about this particular type of uniform to opine one way or the other. However, if the insignia is original to the uniform, even if the jacket was manufactured pre-war, it would have to have been worn post-war due to the Army of Occupation ribbon.

 

There are two possibilities I see for the owner. He may have served in an AAA unit in Europe and been reassigned to the 28th Division as a high point man when it returned to the U. S. for demobilization in 1945. Or it's possible he could have been a post-war National Guard officer since the 28th was reactivated as a Pennsylvania NG unit in 1946. Wasn't it fairly common for NG officer's to have outdated uniforms since they tended to be the last to get the new stuff?

 

Also, is the plastic button on the front of the blouse a replacement for a brass button that fell off, or was that standard since it would lie below the belt buckle? It seems like that would be more comfortable since it was flatter.

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I don't know anything about this particular type of uniform to opine one way or the other. However, if the insignia is original to the uniform, even if the jacket was manufactured pre-war, it would have to have been worn post-war due to the Army of Occupation ribbon.

 

There are two possibilities I see for the owner. He may have served in an AAA unit in Europe and been reassigned to the 28th Division as a high point man when it returned to the U. S. for demobilization in 1945. Or it's possible he could have been a post-war National Guard officer since the 28th was reactivated as a Pennsylvania NG unit in 1946. Wasn't it fairly common for NG officer's to have outdated uniforms since they tended to be the last to get the new stuff?

 

Also, is the plastic button on the front of the blouse a replacement for a brass button that fell off, or was that standard since it would lie below the belt buckle? It seems like that would be more comfortable since it was flatter.

 

Thanks for weighing in! I believe the button is correct, and like you said is to allow the belt to set flat.

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The plastic button is standard. The theory regarding NG service is plausible. By '45-'46, the early occupation period, that blouse would have been at least 5-6 years old.

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The plastic button is standard. The theory regarding NG service is plausible. By '45-'46, the early occupation period, that blouse would have been at least 5-6 years old.

 

I know I say it to much, but Thank you again for all your help! Now I just need to make another torso, so i can display it with my other uniforms.

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I got a response from the seller today about the original owner. Still no name, but they provided some good info that may help trace him.

 

I acquired the uniform from a vintage clothing seller in New York. The veteran served in the Pennsylvania National Guard (213th Coast Artillery) prior to WW2. If I remember correctly, during WW2 he served in Curacao and later in Europe. After the war, he returned to the PA National Guard.
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A Google search produced this:

 

213th Coast Artillery regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semimobile)

{Pa. National Guard}

 

15 Sep. 40 inducted into federal service at Allentown PA and moved to Cp Pendleton VA 24 Sep 40; transferred to Cp Stewart GA 22 Feb 41 and to Ft. Hamilton NY 12 Dec 41; arrived at Brooklyn NY 22 Dec 41 and Ft. Wadsworth NY 1 Jan 42; located to Bayonne NY 7 June 42 and staged at Cp Kilmer NJ 21 June 42 until moved to Ft Dix NJ 12 Sep 42 and departed NY P/E (Port of Embarkation) 1 Nov 42; landed at Casablanca North Africa 18 Nov 42 and moved to Algeria 27 Mar 43; arrived at Tunisia 27 June 43 and landed in Italy 9 Sept 43; arrived in Corsica 16 Mar 44 where HHB (Headquarters & Headquarters Battery) redesignated as HHB 213th AAA Group 1 Apr 44; 1st-3rd Bns redesignated 73rd AAA Gun, 899th AAA Auto-Weapons, and 337th AAA Searchlight Bns, respectively.

 

Campaigns: Algeria-French Morocco, Tunisia, Naples-Foggia, Rome-Arno…

 

From: Order Of Battle, U.S. Army, World War II

By Shelby L. Stanton

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I like it. The ribbons make since with the American defense on an early jacket. The old CA insignia was obolished 1947-48. So everything sort of fits for a 41-46 service.

 

I did have one question for the patch guys. The AA is the Anti-Aircraft command at Ft. Bliss Texas correct? So why would a school patch be put on the right sleeve?

 

Paul

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I like it. The ribbons make since with the American defense on an early jacket. The old CA insignia was obolished 1947-48. So everything sort of fits for a 41-46 service.

 

I did have one question for the patch guys. The AA is the Anti-Aircraft command at Ft. Bliss Texas correct? So why would a school patch be put on the right sleeve?

 

Paul

 

Thanks man! I'm also interested to hear the answer to your question.

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I received the tunic on Saturday, and am happy to report that not only does it have a tailor tag, it also has the name of the owner and a date stamped in it. Just the little bit of Google searching I have done has yielded some great info. The following is from a article printed in the Lebanon Daily News dated 1943.

 

PROMOTED TO CAPTAIN ON OVERSEAS SERVICE

 

Word reaching Mr and Mrs George Kreiser of Quentin last week advised them of the promotion of their son Lt Lawrence G Kreiser to the rank of Captain I last July 15 His present where are described as over Captain Kreiser was attached to Battery H 213th Coast Artillery Corps when that outfit was sworn into Federal service in the fall of 1940 and recently he has been serving in the Dutch West Indies

 

 

I found another article dated 1950 describing him as the battery commander of the 690th AAA Bn

 

Continued on Battery B To Leave For Camp Saturday Officers and enlisted men of Battery B 690th Anti Aircraft Artillery Pennsylvania National Guard stationed at the local Armory Hall will leave by train over the Reading lines at seven o clock tomorrow for Camp Perry Ohio for their an two weeks training maneuvers Captain Lawrence G Kreiser of Rexmont is the Battery Commander and will leave with his men tomorrow There are 65 officers and enlisted men who will make the trip Last Wednesday Privates Don ald Lawrence and John Bucks left for Camp Perry to get things in shape and they will be followed tonight by truck by a detail of enlisted men under command of Lt Paul of the City Po lice force The detail comprises Sgt William J Eisenhour Cor Lloyd E Pyles Harold A Reist Luther S Sherman and James H and Private First Class James D Brandt The outfit expects to return home on Sunday morning August 6

 

It appears his brother Ernest also served with the 213th, and when I did the NARA check I didn't find Lawrence's listing but found many other men with the same last name and from the same area they must be brothers or cousins. anything you can add is greatly appreciated.

 

OK enough blabbing, here are the pictures.

 

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Thanks man! I'm also interested to hear the answer to your question.

 

I bet he wore this AAA Command patch because he really didn,t know which one to wear, if he was a staff officer in the 213th AAA Group, who knows what patch they wore, 7th Army right after August 1944, maybe he wasn't aware which one he should wear, 7th Army, 6th Army Group? That or he wanted to wear a patch that better represented his Branch, the AAA Command fitting the bill.

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I bet he wore this AAA Command patch because he really didn,t know which one to wear, if he was a staff officer in the 213th AAA Group, who knows what patch they wore, 7th Army right after August 1944, maybe he wasn't aware which one he should wear, 7th Army, 6th Army Group? That or he wanted to wear a patch that better represented his Branch, the AAA Command fitting the bill.

 

That definitely makes sense. If I have learned nothing else from researching my grandpa, its that the structure of Artillery units can get confusing. All the moving around and restructuring they went threw makes it difficult to know what patches they should have worn.

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You know this is not the first time I seen the WWII AAA Command worn as a Combat Patch, I have seen in at least two differant photos over a period it being worn, I know two examples is not enough, but it makes me think that perhaps this patch which is normally worn by stateside units was not worn overseas to some degree by Officers and EMs of the Headquaters (not the actual Firing Battalions, they I imagine would have worn the Army or Corps patches of these high Command units they might have been assigned to) of the AAA Brigades and AAA Groups, there were quite alot of them in WWII.

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You know this is not the first time I seen the WWII AAA Command worn as a Combat Patch, I have seen in at least two differant photos over a period it being worn, I know two examples is not enough, but it makes me think that perhaps this patch which is normally worn by stateside units was not worn overseas to some degree by Officers and EMs of the Headquaters (not the actual Firing Battalions, they I imagine would have worn the Army or Corps patches of these high Command units they might have been assigned to) of the AAA Brigades and AAA Groups, there were quite alot of them in WWII.

 

Thank you for all the info!I also found this in a Google search. I know its not the hat that goes with this tunic. I just thought it was interesting. C036167full-2.jpg

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You know this is not the first time I seen the WWII AAA Command worn as a Combat Patch, I have seen in at least two differant photos over a period it being worn, I know two examples is not enough, but it makes me think that perhaps this patch which is normally worn by stateside units was not worn overseas to some degree by Officers and EMs of the Headquaters (not the actual Firing Battalions, they I imagine would have worn the Army or Corps patches of these high Command units they might have been assigned to) of the AAA Brigades and AAA Groups, there were quite alot of them in WWII.

 

 

ERRATA.

 

From the above.

I know two examples is not enough, but it makes me think that perhaps this patch which is normally worn by stateside units was NOT worn overseas to some degree by Officers and EMs of the Headquaters

 

 

It should read WAS WORN, forget NOT, this is a error on my part.

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