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Blue Dyed Dixie Cups


Finnwolf
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I have seen photos in books of the dark blue dyed WW II US Navy dixie cup caps. These also show up from time to time on Ebay.

 

What shade of dye was used on these and where was it obtained from? What Rit dye would be the closest?

 

I am thinking of getting some recent white cotton sailor caps and making a repro or 2. I have done a khaki dyed one and it looks pretty good.

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Corpl. Cleaver

The guys would wash them with fresh denim uniforms to get them that color for deck use. So either go buy a ton of new pants or give them multiple baths in a light shade of blue until you get a color you are happy with.

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I used "navy blue" Rit dye for my dixie cup. I had to soak it a couple times before it got dark enough. It turned more of a purple shade but once it fades a little it should be alright. They also have "denim blue" rit dye but I never used it before so you might want to try that?

 

post-27172-0-69617800-1352149486.jpg

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I've seen originals from deep blues to light purple.

 

A little bit of fading will make your impression more realistic.

 

RC

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The blue was simply to use the hat as a working hat to not show the dirt so bad. A white hat is really only good for a day before it is nasty looking. Various shades of blue were just dye lots and fading. Gray hats were made to go with the gray uniforms. Some ships also had specific departments dye their working hats specific colors to id them.

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The dying was more for "camouflage" for the sailors who were mostly on deck. Camouflage was also the reason for the foray into the gray uniforms. Most of the dying was done onboard ship with whatever they could get, so the colors ran the gamut of shades from dark to not so dark.

 

Charlie

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Yep...don't forget that they also did this with brown/tan tones, dying their working whites/white hats in coffee. Ivan Musicant describes this well in his book about the USS Washington during WWII.

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I've only read that they dyed the hats dark blue or grey to hide grime and grease. I don't recall reading that they dyed them for camouflage reasons, but I'm not disputing it was done for that reason, either. I only recall that they'd dye the hats and their whites in tan or khaki for camo reasons. And I did read that they would sometimes dye them different colors for easier identification from their departments. I think I read an excerpt from somewhere that some sailors painted them with the battleship grey paint. Anyone heard that before? I can't imagine having a painted dixie cup on your head, especially in the Pacific.

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While I haven't heard of painting the hats, I sure someone did it. I'm sure it would be pretty nasty to wear...wouldn't bread or absorb sweat. I've seen people state the reason of dying the hats to hide the dirt and grime, but have never seen an official statement. I think most sailors like a hat that is a bit dirty or salty looking. Makes it look like they've been working hard.

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While I haven't heard of painting the hats, I sure someone did it. I'm sure it would be pretty nasty to wear...wouldn't bread or absorb sweat. I've seen people state the reason of dying the hats to hide the dirt and grime, but have never seen an official statement. I think most sailors like a hat that is a bit dirty or salty looking. Makes it look like they've been working hard.

In talking to my Father, uncle and several other WW 2 Sailors, the hats were infact dyed to hide the grime. Camaflage was a mute point as if you got close enough to see a white hat, you were pretty much going to see the ship. Also, while many hate were dyed on board, by the Sailors, they were alos manufactured in blue and available for purchase from small stores. The gray hats and the uniforms they were intended for were manufactured and very rarely seen in the fleet. They gray uniforms were also not actually intended as a camoflage means. At the time the gray uniform was designed, most Sailors spent the majority of their time in either undress blues or whites. The whites were fine for office folks, but horrid for deck rates (engineers wore dungarees in the pits). The Gray uniforms for officers and Chiefs had been adopted, so it was decided to daopt a gray version of the undress whites to be "Uniform". The textile industry finially told the Navy that due to the ammount of cotton drill fabrics and the dying process, they had to pick either white or gray. They were already making white, khaki, dungaree blue and od greens for all services, they could not fit in another color to process and the ammount of fabric. The Navy decided to drop the gray and stick with the traditional white, especially since the war time Navy enlisted were pretty much in dungarees full time and did not need one more uniform. this information is from the referances found in a series of books about WW 2 Navy uniforms.

 

I have to agree about painting white hats. Never heard that one. Having worn ball caps that had paint all over them, I can attest to the fact that it is a misserable thing to have on your head. Not only is it hot due to not breathing, it is still and scratchy.

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The grays came out in 1943. As you said, by that time, the standard working uniform onboard ship for the enlisted men was the dungarees which already blended in with ship camouflage. Shore side (i.e. offices) still worked in the blues and whites. For the change for the officers from khakis to grays camouflage was a part of the decisions. From the memo from Chief of Naval Personnel to SecNAV on 7 April 1943 it said:

 

Fm: NAVPERS

Memorandum for: SecNAV

VIA COMICH

Subject: Officers Uniforms

 

1. Change in the color and design of officers working uniform to a slate grey color with a moified design of coat and shoulder marks is recommended for the following reasons:

(a) to conform to the simplicity and utility of officer's uniforms in the Army and Marine Corps.

(b to obtain a uniform more suitable for our present shipboard camouflage.

 

 

SECNAV approved on 16 April.

 

On May 18, 1943, Chief of Naval Personnel wrote in a letter to SecNav:

 

It is recommended that a slate gray working uniform be adopted for enlisted men, similar in color to the recently authorized slate gray uniform for officers. If this uniform is adopted, it will be used as a regular working uniform, and the white uniform will remain the liberty uniform for enlisted men.

 

 

Once the manufaccturers talked the Navy out of the gray enlised uniform, the Navy took the existing stock of gray enlisted uniforms and gave them to the Permanant Shore Patrol in the Continental US. They had them for about 6 months (or so) then the Navy pulled them all back.

 

I've seen the gray hats (and gray rating badges) but never a gray enlisted uniform.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Did the slate uniform happen at factory level (for enlisted sailers?)

 

Ive handled one undress slate jumper and same again in pants,both pieces had been overdyed

 

Anyone slate uniform experst out there?

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The enlisted slate gray uniforms were factory done. And with the exception of those issued to the permananent shore patrol in CONUS for a short while, weren't issued out. But that doesn't meant that none leaked out to the fleet.

 

BUT, that also doesn't mean that someone didn't dye some to head off and meet the requirement for grays during the war or more recently to try in cash in on one of the rarest uniforms of WWII Navy.

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  • 5 months later...

at sea we wore the blue patrol cap simular to army patrol cap. not the baseball type hat they wear now,this was 1961-64 i did have 1 of the dark blue hats that was same blue as my dungaree pants.i was first division on uss john r. pierce DD753 . 1st division was mid ships forward and second division was mid ship aft. 1st div was BM2 st. john and 2nd Div. was BM1 foster. deck division.

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RustyCanteen

bill may, on 16 May 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

at sea we wore the blue patrol cap simular to army patrol cap. not the baseball type hat they wear now,this was 1961-64 i did have 1 of the dark blue hats that was same blue as my dungaree pants.i was first division on uss john r. pierce DD753 . 1st division was mid ships forward and second division was mid ship aft. 1st div was BM2 st. john and 2nd Div. was BM1 foster. deck division.

The blue cap you mention would have been the 'Cap, Utility, Cotton Sateen' in dark blue, it was replaced around 1971with the later utility cap.

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The blue cap you mention would have been the 'Cap, Utility, Cotton Sateen' in dark blue, it was replaced around 1971with the later utility cap.

 

Did they look something like this?

 

Good_Giving_2012_Archival_Clothing_Trail

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RustyCanteen

At the moment I`m not able to see your photos very well, but it appears the stitching is different.

I`ll take a look later and try to get some photos of a cap posted.

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RustyCanteen

I just got the chance to look at your photos on a big screen. No, those are different from the caps I described.

 

Here is a quick snap of the 'Cap, Utility, Cotton Sateen, Blue', it looks darker black in the photos; the sateen is hard to take a pic of and get the true color to show.

 

 

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