The moving of 1st Sergeant from grade 2 to grade 1

[ShooterMcGavin]

Hey all,

 

I was wondering if anyone here knew the history and reason behind the move of First Sergeant to grade 1 sometime in 1942? What was the role of a Master Sergeant prior to and after this change, if any?

 

Thanks!

[Justin B.]

When the enlisted grades were reorganized in 1920, master sergeant was mostly used for top NCOs in technical and administrative positions. In infantry units, the only line M/Sgt was the regimental sergeant major. To make the top grade, a first sergeant would have to move into an HQ position. When WW2 started there was already bit of a discontent with field NCOs that they were not getting their share of the top pay grades. After the war got going a lot of more junior people were being moved up quickly and starting to "catch up" to the senior noncom leaders. It became obvious that the value of the first sergeant position needed to be recognized by moving it to the first grade. Also in 1943 TOs were changed so platoon sergeants went from S/Sgt to T/Sgt.

 

Justin B.

[ShooterMcGavin]

My guess until your answer was always that they wanted to even out the authority between senior NCOs at the company level in combat units and MSGTs in staff positions. Great information though, thanks a bunch!

[Justin B.]

It was kind of a leftover concept from an older time: The lower grades were for company-level, the higher grades were for higher echelons. For example back in the Civil War era, Sgt Maj, QM Sgt and Ordnance Sgt wore silk lace chevrons to show their higher status, 1st Sgt and below wore worsted cloth. That division carried on for the most part through WW1, though many other grades had been added. By WW2 that concept had become outdated and it was realized that the best people needed to have a shot at the highest grades and not be limited by the level of the echelon they worked in.

 

Justin B.

[John L]

Justin,

 

Do you have or know of a reference for Civil War chevrons?

 

John

[Justin B.]

My reference for all things about US Army chevrons is Chevrons by William Emerson. (Edit to add:) You see that book cited a lot here, and it's really hard to find, but it's really good.

 

Justin B.

[Lee Ragan]

Colonel Emerson is in the process of up-dating the Chevrons book, but at present, I don't know when it's due to come out. You can bet this info will be posted as soon as it becomes available. Anyone who has any interest in U.S. Army chevrons needs this book.

[patches]

Shooter, don't you remember this topic you started, the Civil War Rank table is here in post # 6.

 

http://www.usmilitar...-skip-chevrons/

[John L]

Shooter, don't you remember this topic you started, the Civil War Rank table is here in post # 6.

 

http://www.usmilitar...-skip-chevrons/

 

 

Patches,

Thank you for the link.

I did not see what I was looking for. I have a Great Grand uncle that was a Sergeant in the union army. I can't get at his paper work right now but he was listed as a Sergeant third grade, If I remember correctly. I am wondering just what that was.

 

John

[patches]

 

 

Patches,

Thank you for the link.

I did not see what I was looking for. I have a Great Grand uncle that was a Sergeant in the union army. I can't get at his paper work right now but he was listed as a Sergeant third grade, If I remember correctly. I am wondering just what that was.

 

John

 

 

Hey you know I thought it was Shooter Mcgavin who requested CW ranks not you , my mistake, I knew he had this topic he started a few weeks or so ago, and that he forgot it, my mistake. But in any event, I m glad the other topic and link was of some help, not sure though on the 3rd Class title, wasn't aware they used grades then, maybe you can post a brand new topic here in the ranks forum when you have all the pertainent documents to ask your questions on the CW rank of your Great Uncle,