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Bugler Chevrons, 1902-1920s


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Bugler chevrons are really unique and its easy to see what the wearer does in the Army of the United States. 1902 to 1920 was a period that saw these chevrons used on the smaller shirt-size chevrons that replaced those really wide chevrons. These firat three are from 1902 to 1918 period and the Infantry (light blue) bugle was from 1902-1904. :rolleyes:

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Herbert Booker

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Here are chevrons for buglers, the red chevrons opn white is for Artillery Chief Musicians, also a Corporal in the Infantry (light blue), and Cavalry Bugler, in yellow. thumbdown.gifthumbsup.gif

 

Aloha & great example of an Chief Musician of the Engineer Corps which came from the Philadelphia QM Depot...I believe that these types of M-1902 pattern Dress Whites chervons were phased out by 1905 by the War Department. The Infantry piece is actually a cut down Principal Musician of Infantry and is also from the Philadelphia QM Depot that was introduced sometime in 1903. It was decided at that time that the branch colors would return back to the light blue color from white. I've had examples of the white chevrons and specialty devices on various field grounds before.

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Chief Musician for khaki wear and Cavalry Chief Trumpeter (yellow). think.gif

 

 

If I'm not mistaken the Khaki on Khaki was introduced in 1907 when the Artillery Corps was reorganized and a series of Master Rating were authorized for wear. You do state that it was intended for Khaki uniform applications however all the different branches of the Army did wear them on their newly prescribed Khaki uniforms as an attempt to standardize chevron usage. The Chief Trumpeter of Cavalry is a private manufactured chevrons and does not follow the quality control regulations set by the QMC like your the Khaki Chief Musician chevron.

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Here is a 1920s Bugler Chief Trumpeter chevrons. ermm.gif

 

I can't recall where I had seen this type of variation before. It might have been in Bob Polks,Mike Von Deckbar or Bill Emersons collections. I'll post one that I have in the collection that is from the 1920's or 30's in the basket weave pattern. I believe I has some other variations from the same time period but do not have the collection in front of me. Aloha John

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The Field Musician piece looks like a reproduction made out of Pakistan.

 

JOHN: "ALOHA!" I know LTC William K. Emerson and Michael von Deckbar, but not Bob Polk? I agree about the Field Musician, had the same impression, that is why when I get someting like that, I never send them to other colelctors as a gift, but do give them to military museums to use for display purposes as they will not sell or give these "museum copies" to anyone! Museums often have reproduction stuff when they cannot get original and they mark it as such, believe it or not? Gave the Naval Historical Center pre-U.S.Civil War naval officer cap badges as they wanted them for exhibit purposes only and I not only gave them to them for free, I also paid the postage too! I have more chevrons to show if others would like to see them here? I sell nothing, of course! I like to trade CD disks when someone makes scans of their collections, usually end up giving insignia and CDs away when I get my sociasl securitgy cheque in the mail once a month. I get offers from Paksitan, but I refuse to buy their stuff as there is enough already on the market, especially WW2 German war machine regalia - pity the poor collector starting out collecting 3rd Reich? Mike send me some great colour photographs he took of the museum in New Orleans, Louisiana that has their chevrons on display, unfortunately no close up pictures? Nonetheless Mike did a good job despite the poor lighting of the museum. Worked with Bill on a book, did some drawings for him, free, of course! I used to illustrate for ASMIC Trading Post, most of their stuff is photographs now it seems? Drew for Jim McDuff and others as an unpaid volunteer. I now collect pictures of insignia - have been shipping out actual insignia as we must clear the boxes out of the store room to make the Fire Marshal happy, know what I mean, John? Thanks for your interest, would you like to see more like this? http://community.webshots.com/user/eneryhodge & http://community.webshots.com/user/hhbooker2 and at http://community.webshots.com/user/clovis_lee_booker and and http://community.webshots.com/user/hhbooker and http://www.militarybadges.info (NON-PROFIT). think.gif Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California 91042-2731 ( hhbooker2@yahoo.com ) w00t.gif

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Herbert Booker

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Very informative thread! I never realized there were this many different bugler insignia and chevrons.

 

Can anyone tell me if this pair of opposing bugles might be military in nature, and especially, if US military? These came in a huge US patch collection years ago, they do look like they are US made to me, but I haven't been able to find a thing on them yet.

 

Thanks,

 

Gary

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**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER HAS SADLY PASSED AWAY**

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15996-please-read-gary-mohrlang-glm/

 

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Very informative thread! I never realized there were this many different bugler insignia and chevrons.

 

Can anyone tell me if this pair of opposing bugles might be military in nature, and especially, if US military? These came in a huge US patch collection years ago, they do look like they are US made to me, but I haven't been able to find a thing on them yet.

 

Thanks,

 

Gary

 

GARY: Saws some patches like that worn on the bottoms of Colonial coats opposite one another on some European uniforms of the 18th and 19th century, maybe for ceremonial or palace guard uniforms today? The United States Marine Corps wore a gold bullion embroidered bugle with the inside filled in red felt with the old English letter "M" in siver inside, not sure where else I've seen these, seen them somewhere else too? Here are two old U.S. Army chevrons for a Bugler, both were for Specialist 6th Grade and were unauthorized but worn in the 1920s to the early 1940s I heard? think.gif Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California ( hhbooker2@yahoo.com )

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Herbert Booker

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JOHN: "ALOHA!" I know LTC William K. Emerson and Michael von Deckbar, but not Bob Polk? I agree about the Field Musician, had the same impression, that is why when I get someting like that, I never send them to other colelctors as a gift, but do give them to military museums to use for display purposes as they will not sell or give these "museum copies" to anyone! Museums often have reproduction stuff when they cannot get original and they mark it as such, believe it or not? Gave the Naval Historical Center pre-U.S.Civil War naval officer cap badges as they wanted them for exhibit purposes only and I not only gave them to them for free, I also paid the postage too! I have more chevrons to show if others would like to see them here? I sell nothing, of course! I like to trade CD disks when someone makes scans of their collections, usually end up giving insignia and CDs away when I get my sociasl securitgy cheque in the mail once a month. I get offers from Paksitan, but I refuse to buy their stuff as there is enough already on the market, especially WW2 German war machine regalia - pity the poor collector starting out collecting 3rd Reich? Mike send me some great colour photographs he took of the museum in New Orleans, Louisiana that has their chevrons on display, unfortunately no close up pictures? Nonetheless Mike did a good job despite the poor lighting of the museum. Worked with Bill on a book, did some drawings for him, free, of course! I used to illustrate for ASMIC Trading Post, most of their stuff is photographs now it seems? Drew for Jim McDuff and others as an unpaid volunteer. I now collect pictures of insignia - have been shipping out actual insignia as we must clear the boxes out of the store room to make the Fire Marshal happy, know what I mean, John? Thanks for your interest, would you like to see more like this? http://community.webshots.com/user/eneryhodge & http://community.webshots.com/user/hhbooker2 and at http://community.webshots.com/user/clovis_lee_booker and and http://community.webshots.com/user/hhbooker and http://www.militarybadges.info://http://community.webshots.com/user/...badges.info (NON-PROFIT). think.gif Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California 91042-2731 ( hhbooker2@yahoo.com ) w00t.gif

 

Aloha, Bob Polk lives in San Pedro and as far as I can recall he does make the ASMIC Conventions regularly. Nice to know that your helped out McDuff and contributed time for the Trading Post. I've been actively contributing articles to the editor for the Trading Post for about 5 or 6 years. If I'm not mistaken are you trying to say that you no longer are collector of insignia and trying to find a good home for them? My core interest had always been the Coast Artillery Corps! The Sgt 1st Class Gunner composite is a nice example of a local (meaning from here in Hawaii during the 1920'-30's) made chevron and speciality rating. I've seen them in old time dated photos, in other collections and on uniforms but still have yet to find one for myself. This 55th CA Regt tunic has a nice variation of a Corp 1st Class Gunner and is part of Bob's collection. I'd really like to hear from you regarding your Coast Artillery related Chevrons and Ratings email me at kiaiokalewa@gmail.com Mahalo, John

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Aloha, Bob Polk lives in San Pedro and as far as I can recall he does make the ASMIC Conventions regularly. Nice to know that your helped out McDuff and contributed time for the Trading Post. I've been actively contributing articles to the editor for the Trading Post for about 5 or 6 years. If I'm not mistaken are you trying to say that you no longer are collector of insignia and trying to find a good home for them? My core interest had always been the Coast Artillery Corps! The Sgt 1st Class Gunner composite is a nice example of a local (meaning from here in Hawaii during the 1920'-30's) made chevron and speciality rating. I've seen them in old time dated photos, in other collections and on uniforms but still have yet to find one for myself. This 55th CA Regt tunic has a nice variation of a Corp 1st Class Gunner and is part of Bob's collection. I'd really like to hear from you regarding your Coast Artillery related Chevrons and Ratings email me at kiaiokalewa@gmail.com Mahalo, John

 

 

Aloha, John: Nice old uniform, 1930s? If they called the 3 chevrons over a shell in a circle a First Class Gunner, maybe the one with 2 chevrons would be a 2nd Class Gunner, maybe? Would mean there would be one with a single chevron for 3rd Class Gunner too? Coast Artillery Corps has to be one tough area to collect in, but am sure there is a museum near or in San Pedro as I believe they have a C.A.C. stationed there too? My native American Indian friend was in the C.A.C., and the same year his unit became a Tank Corps outfit and still later in the year became the 118th Infantry Regiment of the 30th Infantry Division in North Charleston, South Carolina (SC ARNG). I can show more C.A.C. badges and chevrons here for the benefit of others. Strange that the C.A.C. and the Mine Planter Service had so many different badges and yet they are not so easy to find. Hawaii has to be a great place to track such items down, you'd think so? w00t.gif Sarge ( hhbooker2@yahoo.com )

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Herbert Booker

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Aloha, John: Nice old uniform, 1930s? If they called the 3 chevrons over a shell in a circle a First Class Gunner, maybe the one with 2 chevrons would be a 2nd Class Gunner, maybe? Would mean there would be one with a single chevron for 3rd Class Gunner too? Coast Artillery Corps has to be one tough area to collect in, but am sure there is a museum near or in San Pedro as I believe they have a C.A.C. stationed there too? My native American Indian friend was in the C.A.C., and the same year his unit became a Tank Corps outfit and still later in the year became the 118th Infantry Regiment of the 30th Infantry Division in North Charleston, South Carolina (SC ARNG). I can show more C.A.C. badges and chevrons here for the benefit of others. Strange that the C.A.C. and the Mine Planter Service had so many different badges and yet they are not so easy to find. Hawaii has to be a great place to track such items down, you'd think so? w00t.gif Sarge ( hhbooker2@yahoo.com )

 

Bob's uniform is a local Hawaii tailored made tunic and most like up at Fort Shafter in the 55th CA Regt's tailor shop. The ranks as you already know are grade classifications so to answer your question in regards to the Gunner rating would be no. These rating were only intended to denote qualification in a specialty and to earn a few more dollars on top of their rank. Hawaii happens to be the worst place to find insignia. Most of the good stuff is over there. My luck had been in states like OR, PA, WA, and CA.

 

Here's a 1906 or 1907 pattern chevron for a Electrician 2nd Class...The dress white uniforms by this time was intended to be used only by the Medical Corps and the Recruiting Service. So, Electrician 2nd Class, Recruiting Service.

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Bob's uniform is a local Hawaii tailored made tunic and most like up at Fort Shafter in the 55th CA Regt's tailor shop. The ranks as you already know are grade classifications so to answer your question in regards to the Gunner rating would be no. These rating were only intended to denote qualification in a specialty and to earn a few more dollars on top of their rank. Hawaii happens to be the worst place to find insignia. Most of the good stuff is over there. My luck had been in states like OR, PA, WA, and CA.

 

Here's a 1906 or 1907 pattern chevron for a Electrician 2nd Class...The dress white uniforms by this time was intended to be used only by the Medical Corps and the Recruiting Service. So, Electrician 2nd Class, Recruiting Service.

 

Aloha, John: Nice chevrons with sparks, thanks for showing it here. Did not know the favoured states would have been California, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington State? Did not know Hawaii would be slim pickings now, that is sad! crying.gif Sarge

(Color Sergeant, 3 chevrons and a star) and (Company Suppy Sergeamt, Infantry 1904 white).

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Herbert Booker

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I think most of these have been covered, but thought I'd post them anyway - my band-related stuff. Over the years, I've always been drawn to cool looking chevrons. You used to be able to find all kinds of interesting ones at all the shows for cheap. No longer!!!

 

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I never thougt they were so many different kind of chevrons. Wow, what a great reference here!!! I have only a few of these rank insignia, they were never my main effort! I would like to know, if these ones shown below were from the same era. I think they are private rank insignia.

 

I wonder if the red triangle one is for Arty personell, maybe a forward observer?

 

Thanks for yuor help!

 

Lars

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