ShooterMcGavin Posted September 28, 2012 #1 Posted September 28, 2012 I've noticed in U.S. Army insignia history, for over a century ranks sometimes skip a chevron or don't have a logical order. Between the origin of chevrons and the end of World War 1, one simply went from private, with no insignia to Corporal with two chevrons... what happened to the one chevron insignia? Why did they decide to go from nothing to two stripes and not nothing to one and then two? I don't understand where the idea to skip came from... just as in World War 2, (from what I was told) Technical Sergeant was not a combat arms rank, the order went Sergeant, Staff Sergeant and then First Sergeant in rifle companies... again, why the skip? If anyone can educate me on the history of insignia I'd appreciate it!!!!
patches Posted September 28, 2012 #2 Posted September 28, 2012 It was just a percuilarity of the American Army really, the British Army on the other hand had a single stripe for a juinor rank this being Lance Corporal but none for Private, it started to be worn as early as the Napoleonic Wars. Privates it was thought in both sides of the Atlantic did not really deserve a stripe of there own till the reached Lance Corporal ( in the British Army) and Corporal (in the American Army). As for the Grade of Techincal Sergeant in the 20s through WII, it was indeed a Grade held by Combat soldiers, your Platoon Sergeants were in the Main Techincal Sergeants, these being the combat arms branches, (in times of heavy combat alot of T/Sgts Platoon Sergeants were of course Killed or Wounded, then other ranking Non Coms took over). Starting in 1948 the grade was changed to Sergeant First Class, here in many instances the in the 50s and 60s the grade was know officialy as Platoon Sergeant by those holding this grade who were Platoon Sergeants.
ShooterMcGavin Posted September 28, 2012 Author #3 Posted September 28, 2012 It was just a percuilarity of the American Army really, the British Army on the other hand had a single stripe for a juinor rank this being Lance Corporal but none for Private, it started to be worn as early as the Napoleonic Wars. Privates it was thought in both sides of the Atlantic did not really deserve a stripe of there own till the reached Lance Corporal ( in the British Army) and Corporal (in the American Army). As for the Grade of Techincal Sergeant in the 20s through WII, it was indeed a Grade held by Combat soldiers, your Platoon Sergeants were in the Main Techincal Sergeants, these being the combat arms branches, (in times of heavy combat alot of T/Sgts Platoon Sergeants were of course Killed or Wounded, then other ranking Non Coms took over). Starting in 1948 the grade was changed to Sergeant First Class, here in many instances the in the 50s and 60s the grade was know officialy as Platoon Sergeant by those holding this grade who were Platoon Sergeants. Thanks for that!! I asked about Technical Sergeant because in a separate forum someone mentioned that Don Malarkey (of Easy Company, 101st Airborne) was promoted from Staff Sergeant to Technical Sergeant in early 1945 because the leadership in the battalion felt he was too stressed out from all the action and the rank was (at the time) not one that carried any of the responsibilities of the senior noncoms or the Buck and Staff Sergeants. It didn't seem right. It wasn't just corporal either, the Civil War era saw three stripe sergeants suddenly earn three chevrons either straight or curved over them for the next promotion... nothing for four or five stripes. Confusing to me when I started researching insignia.
Lee Ragan Posted September 28, 2012 #4 Posted September 28, 2012 If you can. get a copy of "Chevrons", by LTC William Emerson. It's long out of print, but he is working on a new revised edition. The book may be a bit pricey, but the research was dome at the Smithsonian Inst. and is very complete, plus the book has lots of illuatrations and charts. I've heard that xerox copies of the original book can bring $100 or more. That's how valuable this reference work is. Hopefully the new edition will be out soon. I understand you have a lot of questions on Army chevrons cause I did too 35 years ago! But realize that modern pay grades and all that is a 20th century thing and prior to 1920, Congress set the rate of pay for each rank and by 1920, the Army had about 120 different enlisted rank insignia. Yep, it was complicated. Go back thru the rank section of this forum and search out all the threads about Army chevrons and you will pick up a LOT of info. This may be your best bet for answering some of your questions till you can get a copy of "Chevrons". Hope this helps.
blkjack07 Posted September 28, 2012 #5 Posted September 28, 2012 Emerson also has a website with some good information on chevrons .... http://www.emersoninsignia.net/Chevrons.html
patches Posted September 28, 2012 #6 Posted September 28, 2012 Thanks for that!! I asked about Technical Sergeant because in a separate forum someone mentioned that Don Malarkey (of Easy Company, 101st Airborne) was promoted from Staff Sergeant to Technical Sergeant in early 1945 because the leadership in the battalion felt he was too stressed out from all the action and the rank was (at the time) not one that carried any of the responsibilities of the senior noncoms or the Buck and Staff Sergeants. It didn't seem right. It wasn't just corporal either, the Civil War era saw three stripe sergeants suddenly earn three chevrons either straight or curved over them for the next promotion... nothing for four or five stripes. Confusing to me when I started researching insignia. You mean these Chevrons and Rockers (SIC) right? the 1850s/Civil War to Spanish American War/early 1900s ranks. As others have said Mr Emerson's book is the one, I need to get another copy myself, I used to have it but not anymore. http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Union_Insignia_of_the_Civil_War
Justin B. Posted September 28, 2012 #7 Posted September 28, 2012 I've noticed in U.S. Army insignia history, for over a century ranks sometimes skip a chevron or don't have a logical order. Between the origin of chevrons and the end of World War 1, one simply went from private, with no insignia to Corporal with two chevrons... what happened to the one chevron insignia? Why did they decide to go from nothing to two stripes and not nothing to one and then two? Some great answers above, I'll just add that two chevrons for corporal and three for sergeant goes back to 1802 in the British Army, but in the early days the US Army used just one chevron, on both upper sleeves for sergeant major, lower sleeves for sergeant, and on the right lower sleeve for corporal. Someone must have thought that American sergeants should have the same number of stripes as the British, so in the 1830s dragoon sergeants started wearing three stripes and it extended to the rest of the army in the late 1840s. Why the British chose two and three chevrons (and four, for sergeant major) to begin with without a single chevron is kind of murky, but there is some evidence that lance corporals in some regiments wore a single chevron back in the late 1700s. The single chevron didn't become official till around 1815. I don't understand where the idea to skip came from... just as in World War 2, (from what I was told) Technical Sergeant was not a combat arms rank, the order went Sergeant, Staff Sergeant and then First Sergeant in rifle companies... again, why the skip? As patches has pointed out, there were indeed technical sergeants in "line" units in WW2. If you go back further in time, your rank pretty much went with your job in the unit, and there weren't many T/Sgt slots in infantry units in the '20s and '30s. It wasn't just corporal either, the Civil War era saw three stripe sergeants suddenly earn three chevrons either straight or curved over them for the next promotion... nothing for four or five stripes. Confusing to me when I started researching insignia. When those stripes were first authorized (1847, point up) the rocker or tie was seen as just an extension of the chevrons to indicate the higher rank; the three stripes of the chevron were just extended into the rocker for sergeant major or the tie for quartermaster sergeant. So even though there were six stripes, it didn't really represent the sixth in a series, it was just the insignia that meant sergeant major/QMS. Eventually as there were more enlisted grades it was realized that the number of rockers/ties could also be varied. This came slowly for certain specialized grades, though, so you see one tie appear in 1866, one rocker in the 1870s, two rockers or ties around the turn of the century. I agree on Emerson's Chevrons, I looked for years till I found a "bargain" on a copy ($100!). Justin B.
JrBfloNY Posted February 3 #8 Posted February 3 On 9/27/2012 at 11:53 PM, ShooterMcGavin said: Thanks for that!! I asked about Technical Sergeant because in a separate forum someone mentioned that Don Malarkey (of Easy Company, 101st Airborne) was promoted from Staff Sergeant to Technical Sergeant in early 1945 because the leadership in the battalion felt he was too stressed out from all the action and the rank was (at the time) not one that carried any of the responsibilities of the senior noncoms or the Buck and Staff Sergeants. It didn't seem right. It wasn't just corporal either, the Civil War era saw three stripe sergeants suddenly earn three chevrons either straight or curved over them for the next promotion... nothing for four or five stripes. Confusing to me when I started researching insignia. There was no battalion sgt maj until later if you look they have two archs. So during the civil War there was a company quartermaster Sergeant with one straight Chevron above the three for sergeant then because there was nothing for Battalion level the regimental quartermaster sergeant had to reflect that of the regimental sergeant major, hence three pointed down and three straights. As I said before when 1902 rolls around and into the first world war you start to see Battalion sergeant major with three up and two down. To the point being that there was a rank between sergeant and sergeant major and those would be first sergeant with three and a lozenge company quartermaster three down one across the top then it jumped to regimental Quartermaster and then regimental sergeant major as aforementioned. There's also of course the ordinance sergeant which is three down and a star and they were in crimson only. So I'm not saying that a guy didn't just jump from Sergeant too regimental sergeant major but most likely he went to company first sergeant before making that jump.
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