Baron3-6 Posted October 29, 2013 Share #51 Posted October 29, 2013 Here's another of the SG marked helmets... Still taken from George Stevens' D-Day to Berlin footage.. Thats awesome....and it appears that it could almost be THE SG helmet from post #26...even the block lettering on the G is the same. If not the same one, at least the same painter. My guess is "Special Guard"...or escort, like the kind a Lt. Col. and a camera crew would need to drive around freely and shoot film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavscout6b Posted January 13, 2014 Share #52 Posted January 13, 2014 Thread bumped = Beginning Round 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavscout6b Posted January 13, 2014 Share #53 Posted January 13, 2014 The late-1945 listing is good information; but not accurate for WW2 service. http://militarypoliceflagunits.com/resources/LOCATION+OF+MILITARY+POLICE+BATTALIONS+IN+LATE+1945.pdf By the time it was made, the US First Army was back in the US; and several battalions had returned stateside or moved to other commands. (Example: The 783rd was assigned to & fought with 1st Army, from Normandy until the end. By the time the list was made, the 783rd was at Camp Claiborne, LA. Not a very accurate description of their wartime service/assignment.) I have found a few units that the late-1945 list doesn't accurately reflect their wartime service, assigment, or previous locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavscout6b Posted January 13, 2014 Share #54 Posted January 13, 2014 I'm going to go out on a limb and wonder if the 518th ( if it was that unit) just happened to be the unit assigned to guarding the first army HQ area. I can't recall if I have a list of First Army attachments or not someplace. Nope. The 518th was directly assigned to VIII Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavscout6b Posted January 13, 2014 Share #55 Posted January 13, 2014 Ooops... I stand corrected: The 818th MP Co. was directly assigned to VIII Corps; not the 518th MP Bn. (I mistook the 8 to be a 5 in a photo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GITom1944 Posted January 15, 2014 Share #56 Posted January 15, 2014 Here's another reference pic. From the NARA Signal Corps collection. Summary Court, Belgium, 4 November 1944. The arresting MP is Basil Smith of the 509th MP Bn. The First Army style insignia is on Smith's helmet as well as the podium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GITom1944 Posted January 15, 2014 Share #57 Posted January 15, 2014 Both the 518th MP Bn. and the 509th MP Bn. were assigned directly to First Army for Operation Neptune & the marking shows up in Normandy photos shortly after D-Day. Just a guess - perhaps this is a symbol for First Army Provost Marshal and might have been used by army-level MP units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavscout6b Posted January 15, 2014 Share #58 Posted January 15, 2014 Both the 518th MP Bn. and the 509th MP Bn. were assigned directly to First Army for Operation Neptune & the marking shows up in Normandy photos shortly after D-Day. Just a guess - perhaps this is a symbol for First Army Provost Marshal and might have been used by army-level MP units. AWESOME PHOTO !!! What reference did you use in finding this information? (Thats the kind of material I have been looking for.) I have thought about trying to format a spreadsheet with listings & assigments for MP units in the ETO; but time & computer skills are a premium with me. Can you please check the list again, and see if there is mention of the 783rd or 713th MP Battalions? Both were supposedly assigned to 1st Army, but parceled out at various times. Neither wore the emblem you indicated, so it may have been just the 509th & 518th. C Co./783rd MP - Passed to 5th & 6th ESB on 6/9/44. Landed 6/10/44 and cleared traffic from Omaha Beach. D Co./783rd MP - Passed to 1st ESB on 6/3/44. Landed 6/10/44 and cleared traffic from Utah Beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GITom1944 Posted January 15, 2014 Share #59 Posted January 15, 2014 The photo was scanned at the National Archives; the info regarding the 518th & 509th MP Bns came from Fold3, specifically WWII War Diaries, First Army Report of Operations in the Invasion of Normandy. Search engines can be funky... It took me quite a while to find the reference a 2nd time. Fold3 is a subscription site, but if you are looking for this kind of info, it is cheaper than traveling to College Park, MD. At the moment I have to defer on the 783rd & 713th but I am certain info for both is on Fold3. Regarding the insignia, I'm thinking it might also represent First Army Headquarters or First Army Special Troops, but that is just speculative. Given that this marking shows up so quickly in Normandy, I suspect the insignia was added in England before D-Day when troops were still in garrison (I don't think MP Bns that had just arrived in Normandy during the hectic build-up period would have had their guys turning in their pots for insignia painting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilwaukeeDan Posted June 27, 2016 Share #60 Posted June 27, 2016 Here's another reference pic. From the NARA Signal Corps collection. Summary Court, Belgium, 4 November 1944. The arresting MP is Basil Smith of the 509th MP Bn. The First Army style insignia is on Smith's helmet as well as the podium. Hi GITom, I was wondering if you could help me find more photos of MP's from the NARA Signal Corps collection. I believe that is my grandfather on the left in this photo: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_01_2014/post-2064-0-75363200-1389751461.jpg Is that collection available online somewhere? Thank you! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted June 27, 2016 Share #61 Posted June 27, 2016 Dan, it might be easier to send a private message to GITom to insure that he actually gets your message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capajo02 Posted February 10, 2017 Share #62 Posted February 10, 2017 I know this thread is five years old, but I wanted to link to some more evidence of these helmets appearing during the war. While is a bit gruesome, there are 1st Army MPs with helmets painted like the one in question in this film of the execution of German infiltrators from the Battle of the Bulge. These are likely 509th and/or 518th MP Bn troops. YouTube link: Critical Past link: http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675044510_execution-of-German-spies_509th-military-police_execution-spot_spies-are-tied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GITom1944 Posted February 13, 2017 Share #63 Posted February 13, 2017 capajo02 - Thanks for posting this. Gruesome, yes but it is useful documentation. I've seen it before but I never noticed the First Army style marking on the MP's helmets. Per the info provided in the link, the clip shows the prisoners being "brought to (the) execution spot of the 482nd MP guard station by military police of 509th MP (Bn)." Perhaps the MPs without the insignia are from the 482nd and those with it are from the 509th. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capajo02 Posted February 13, 2017 Share #64 Posted February 13, 2017 Tom,Good catch... Of all of the obvious places to look for info, I missed the description. I am usually so intent at viewing the footage, I miss the obvious. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted March 14, 2017 Share #65 Posted March 14, 2017 Surfing the www, I came across this picture taken by CAPA in France, 1944... MPs from a 1st Army unit, the MP in the back of the Jeep sports the red/white insignia on his helmet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Posted March 14, 2017 Share #66 Posted March 14, 2017 Surfing the www, I came across this picture taken by CAPA in France, 1944... MPs from a 1st Army unit, the MP in the back of the Jeep sports the red/white insignia on his helmet... Great photo..................is that a pile of German helmets in the center background? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted March 14, 2017 Share #67 Posted March 14, 2017 Yes i think it is....was eyeballing it too!....mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GITom1944 Posted August 11, 2018 Share #68 Posted August 11, 2018 I can't remember where I found this pic, but it shows the First Army MP markings on the helmets. It was labelled Military Police Traffic Court. My guess is it is in France during the summer of 1944. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted October 13, 2019 Share #69 Posted October 13, 2019 Even more photos from the same source https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosnormandie/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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