ROTC Insignia

[craig_pickrall]

Since this thread has expanded from the original ID of one star to a general discussion of ROTC insignia I have changed the name of the thread to reflect that. It can now become the collecting point for any ROTC insignia.

[craig_pickrall]

Here is a specimen of the insignia for Academic Achievement at R.O.T.C. honor schools "for Army Units of Junior Division at Class MS Institutions" (whatever that means.) Courtesy of ASMIC "Can-You-ID" Web page.

 

 

 

Again I apologize for the poor quality of the original data source. I have tried to read that description you refer to and wonder if it isn't HS for High School rather than MS. That would be much the same as it is today. High School = Junior ROTC and College = ROTC.

[BEAST]

This has been a great thread. I am interested in expanding this into uniforms. If you have examples, let's start a seperate thread in the uniform section also. I have a couple of WWII era ROTC uniforms and an WWI era ROTC uniform that I will post.

 

By the way, here is an example of the Academic Achievement wreath for a military school with star on a grey background.

[Proud Kraut]

Maybe you could post one here? Would be great to see another example!

 

Lars

[hhbooker2]

This has been a great thread. I am interested in expanding this into uniforms. If you have examples, let's start a seperate thread in the uniform section also. I have a couple of WWII era ROTC uniforms and an WWI era ROTC uniform that I will post.

 

By the way, here is an example of the Academic Achievement wreath for a military school with star on a grey background.

This one looks almost like it was for a Confederate States Army general officer, doesn't it?

[BEAST]

Lars,

No problem!

 

Here is a WWI era Purdue uniform. My other two are WWII era.

 

 

 

[BEAST]

Here is the same era hat with eagle:

 

 

[BEAST]

Here are the insignia on two of my ROTC uniforms. The first is from a Purdue University uniform coat that I believe dates from the early 1930s. Although my PU regulations only show information on three stripes, the reg must have changed. Earlier three stripes indicated a cadet in the second year of the advanced program. I believe it must have changed to four stripes to indicate a cadet who would soon receive his commision.

 

 

The second comes from a Indiana University uniform that I belive is a late 1930s or 1940s pattern. The blue vertical stripe indicates that the wearer has completed a basic ROTC camp or Citizens Military Training Camp or an advanced ROTC camp.

 

[craig_pickrall]

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=15671

 

This is the link to the ROTC UNiform thread in the Uniform Section.

[tredhed2]

As Wailuna stated, ASTP was a program to provide a technical college degree to enlisted soldiers. Particpants attended most major universities, but were actually on active duty and lived in barracks on campus. They wore uniforms 24/7; and marched to classes as units. In other words, their soldier job was to attend college. The ASTP program was created by the fears (gained by France and Britain's losses of college grads in WWI) that an entire generation of college grads might be lost in WWII. As WWII continued (and US casualties soared), most ASTP participants were pulled from campuses and thrust into line combat units. My father was one such unlucky soul. In 1943 (after 2 years of ASTP at Texas A&M); my dad was pulled from A&M and dropped into the stark tar-paper shack world of the 103d Infantry Division of Camp Howze, TX. He once reflected that the old Army corporals truly hated the "college boys"; and their treatment of the ASTP troops verged on sadism.

 

One of the underlying reasons for the creation of ASTP was that the draft of 1942 took ALL able-bodied men. That effectively cleaned out the colleges (no "2S" deferrals in those days). Remember, very, very few women attended college in the 1940s. With all the men gone, the college presidents and Boards of Trustees were screaming that there was no income.

 

Capt Cav - your dad may have always marched to and from class, but my dad (Queens College, Queens, NYC) occasionally marched to and from class. Other times, he and some of his ASTP buddies simpley walked together.

 

The CO, a major, agreed w/ the QC President that the unit should sing while marching. So, after a few bawdy songs, the idea was dropped. (Yes, Bob, I get it from my dad) Anyway, most ASTP personnel enjoyed the fact that there were so few male students on campus - just the 4Fs - and so many coeds....you get the drift. Also, my dad went home to Brooklyn on weekends; some of his NE area buddies also went home.

 

In many classes, dad's fellow students were sharper than the "professors". Many students were already native speakers - foreign languages were taught (and some knowledge was a class prerequesite); some had more education; at least one was already a university professor (not tenured). There was at least one Canadian and British National in my dad's unit; neither had any idea how they were drafted into the US Army. The Brit was no slouch; he was a well-to-do maritime businessman prior to his service.

 

Dad trained with both the 69th and 79th IDs, but ended up in a combat engineer battalion.

[CaptCav]

My dad's luck got worse. All the ASTP guys were excited to go to college campuses. They had visions of babes hanging on each arm. When my dad got off the bus at College Station, he was in for a rude shock. Texas A&M was a land grant college (and a military school, to boot). Women students would not be admitted to A&M until the 60s. So much for fantasies of women.

[tredhed2]

With such forward thinking as that, ya wonder how there got to be so many Texans!

[GLM]

Here is a specimen of the insignia for Academic Achievement at R.O.T.C. honor schools "for Army Units of Junior Division at Class MS Institutions" (whatever that means.) Courtesy of ASMIC "Can-You-ID" Web page.

 

 

A couple more for Academic Achievement. Found these two hidden in with my MUC variations this evening.

 

Gary

[CNY Militaria]

All current stuff here, but here is the extent of my ROTC insignia "collection."

[ADMIN]

Not sure if anyone else saw it, but on eBay there is a World War II period Texas A&M "Corps of Cadets" uniform for sale. Its got the blue star on the sleeve and the two bars on the cuff.

 

Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1943-Military-...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Item number: 300198971762

 

[kfields]

Great thread! Here is an ROTC sleeve patch with Ohio State seal buttons. By the color of the buttons, I assume these are WW1 vintage. Kim

[kfields]

Here is a family photograph that is somwhat related to the topic and that I thought I would share. My grandfather is in the second row from the bottom, second from the right. Taken in 1915 at the University of Illinois at Champaign, I think that would have been his sophmore year. A few swords and lots of Krags in the photo. I suspect their training consisted of drill and ceremony and probably some firearms training. It is my understanding that there was some sort of compulsory military type training for all male members of the student body. Would this have been different than ROTC or preceded ROTC ? What type program would it have been called I wonder ? In his senior year, early in 1918, he and other classmates left the university and signed up for the Army. I assume this was in agreement with the University because he was given his degree anyway and his actual diploma has written on it in official script words to effect that he left early for military service. He entered OCS at Camp Grant, commissioned a 2nd Lt, in the summer-fall, and assigned to border duty in New Mexico.

Lots of questions I now WISH I would have asked him when he were living but of course too late for that! Kim

[hhbooker2]

"GREETINGS & SALUTATIONS!" While browsing through eBay I sae eBay Item #130197382777 which is what was described as am R.O.T.C. patch, never ever saw one like this before, what do you think of it? Sarge Booker of Tujunga, California

[hhbooker2]

Here is the reverse, its about US$7.00 right now with just a couple more hours to go. Sarge

[cwnorma]

Sarge,

 

Based on style and construction, it is probably for an ROTC shooting team from around the WW1 period to about 1930.

 

I don't see anything that screams reproduction to me.

 

Chris

[Wailuna]

...Here is a family photograph...my grandfather is in the second row from the bottom, second from the right. Taken in 1915 at the University of Illinois at Champaign...It is my understanding that there was some sort of compulsory military type training for all male members of the student body. Would this have been different than ROTC or preceded ROTC ? What type program would it have been called I wonder ?

The Land-Grant College Act of 1862 Act [or Morrill Act] of the U.S. Congress provided grants of land to states to finance the establishment of colleges specializing in "agriculture and the mechanic arts." The Act required that military training be included in the curriculum of all land-grant schools. The National Defense Act of 1916 established ROTC, in part to standardize the diverse individual training activities at land-grant schools and other public and private schools. Direct Army involvement in military training at land-grant schools far predated ROTC. Lt. John J. Pershing was professor of military science at the University of Nebraska from 1891 until 1895 (even earning a law degree while he was there, class of 1893).

[NebrPatch]

I'm bringing this thread out of the mothballs, does anyone know if the pictured chevrons are ROTC? The chevrons are made of the same gray felt as the shields with the fine-mesh gauze on the back.

 

Tom

[blkjack07]

Can someone help me understand exactly what this OQMG form is authorizing? Is this a proposal, an approval, an authorization for manufacture and/or purchase, all of the above ... ? Does this indicate the Torch patch was first used in '47? Apparently it was originally designed in red-yellow-blue.

Thanks ...

 

EDIT: The pics are not displaying, for some reason ... they are from Craig's post, No. 22, above ...

[craig_pickrall]

Those OQMG drawings I've posted that are dated 1947 or in that vicinity are usually redrawn insignia. Prior to WW2 and during the war years the drawings are usually a D Size sheet with many insignia shown on one sheet. A D Size depending on the standard used will be either a 22" X 34" or a 24" X 36". They are muliples of either 8 1/2 X 11 or 9 X 12. I do not have a complete set of these drawings so it is hard to say for sure exactly what was done. In the case of the ROTC insignia it is know that they were used prior to WW2 so I think it is safe to assume the sheets I posted are redrawn to have one insignia per sheet rather than many insignia on the same sheet.

 

Before the war there may have been a sheet that had 30 or 40 different patches on the one sheet. After the war they were changing this so there was only one per sheet but there were some exceptions to this as well. Rank insignia were usually all shown on one sheet. I have the drawing for the USAF Chevrons where they were all covered on one sheet and the new 2" wide blue / gold chevrons were all on one sheet too. There were many new insignia added post war and they were drawn one per sheet from the beginning.

 

These drawings were used as part of the purchase package when letting contracts for insignia. They specify colors, designs and stitch counts.

[blkjack07]

Thanks, Craig ...