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Brigadier General Rank USMC


devildog34
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I'm curious about the BGen rank for the shoulders of the USMC officer greens and which would be correct. I know there were very flat stars as evidenced by one member's great Id'd USMC officers tunic, but would the style featured in this photo also be correct for that time? Just curious as I am not completely sure.

post-2182-1346638264.jpg

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You know I'm not an insignia hound, but this star doesn't look right to me either. It could be a WWI style, but even that doesn't seem right. I may be in left field with this, but it remines me of a sweetheart piece that had/has the insignia of the branch of service soldered on op of the star.

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Is that the Groff uniform which just sold on ebay? I would think that a set of 1946 GO stars would be sterling - those do not appear to be. There was a company making good repos of those false embrodiered GO stars and that set looks like it came from the same company.

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Yes it is the Groff tunic. I have known about Groff for some time and have even spoken with his son also a retired Marine. I was curious as this looks like a good tunic.

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Well these are definately not sweetheart pieces they are marked pasquale which I know was a maker but the question is on the false embroidery. I don't know that I've seen enough WWII USMC general tunics to compare except the Withers tunic that has very nice flat likely China-made stars.

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Yes it is the Groff tunic. I have known about Groff for some time and have even spoken with his son also a retired Marine. I was curious as this looks like a good tunic.

 

I was watching that one with interest. The uniform was Groff's but I believe that the ribbons and stars were not original to it.

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I was watching that one with interest. The uniform was Groff's but I believe that the ribbons and stars were not original to it.

Agree. And based on the relatively modest closing price ($861), I think most of the USMC collectors out there (who usually bid crazy prices on good stuff) felt the same way. I found the non-regulation stars to be very suspect. Based on post WW2 portrait photos I have seen, USMC officers are very "by the book" when it comes to uniforms. I guess the seller couldn't find a nice pair of vintage 1940's USMC general stars to use for his uniform restoration.

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If you go to the regs, Marine GO stars were described as "smooth, slightly dapped or domed, of silver." "Smooth" generally rules out false-embroidered textures; I don't know what "dapped" means, but domed of course implies that the stars had a slightly curved top. Marine WW2 GO photos often show smoother, flatter stars compared to Army generals' "pyramidal" stars. It is also apparent in the National Geographic insignia issues, where the Marine stars are illustrated without the facets of the Army stars.

 

Which, of course, doesn't mean that other types of stars weren't worn by individual generals.

 

Justin B.

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Well I agree on the rank not sure about the ribbons the holes and age and discoloration to the lining seem to suggest they'd been there an awful long time. No doubt Groff's tunic. According to the seller he acquired it this way and did could not say that the ribbons or insignia were original. Looks like a nice piece and would deserve to be properly restored anyway. I've known all about Groff through my research enough so that I actually have been in touch with his son who gave me some great info on his WWI service. He was quite the Marine and this it was nice to see this tunic surface.

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Stinger Gunner USMC
Well I agree on the rank not sure about the ribbons the holes and age and discoloration to the lining seem to suggest they'd been there an awful long time. No doubt Groff's tunic. According to the seller he acquired it this way and did could not say that the ribbons or insignia were original. Looks like a nice piece and would deserve to be properly restored anyway. I've known all about Groff through my research enough so that I actually have been in touch with his son who gave me some great info on his WWI service. He was quite the Marine and this it was nice to see this tunic surface.

Devildog,

I have kept my comments quiet about this uniform and seriously considered adding it to my collection of USMC General Officers uniforms but decided to pass for a couple of reasons.

1. the Stars are, in my opinion, not correct.

2. I believe the Fourregere is a reproduction as it appears to be a synthetic blend based on photos rather than a wool one.

3. I am almost certain the ribbons have been reproduced (which doesn't bother me but wasn't disclosed as such)

Overall, I think the uniform in itself is legit but a restored piece.

 

The stars on my Withers uniform are nearly perfectly flat. I used to think they were Chinese made but i'm not 100% on that now since I have uncovered a matching set of shirt size that are marked sterling that came from another notable USMC Brig. General. The most common style that you see on WWII generals in photos are very hard to locate and were made by H&H. Shoulder-form also made a variety for the Marine Corps. I also have one other style very similar to shoulder-form's version that are unmarked and somewhat crude on the backside but did belong to a tombstone promoted Brig General promoted in '46-47 time frame. I will try to get some photos worthy of posting on the forum for reference.

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Devildog,

I have kept my comments quiet about this uniform and seriously considered adding it to my collection of USMC General Officers uniforms but decided to pass for a couple of reasons.

1. the Stars are, in my opinion, not correct.

2. I believe the Fourregere is a reproduction as it appears to be a synthetic blend based on photos rather than a wool one.

3. I am almost certain the ribbons have been reproduced (which doesn't bother me but wasn't disclosed as such)

Overall, I think the uniform in itself is legit but a restored piece.

 

The stars on my Withers uniform are nearly perfectly flat. I used to think they were Chinese made but i'm not 100% on that now since I have uncovered a matching set of shirt size that are marked sterling that came from another notable USMC Brig. General. The most common style that you see on WWII generals in photos are very hard to locate and were made by H&H. Shoulder-form also made a variety for the Marine Corps. I also have one other style very similar to shoulder-form's version that are unmarked and somewhat crude on the backside but did belong to a tombstone promoted Brig General promoted in '46-47 time frame. I will try to get some photos worthy of posting on the forum for reference.

 

James I agree on the stars. Guess I'd have to hold the tunic in hand and see the ribbons and fouragerre personnally to know for sure.

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