General Apathy Posted August 22, 2012 Share #51 Posted August 22, 2012 When a friend finished the restoration of their rare WW2 Dodge WC-37 Panel Van, he turned to me to come up with some original markings for it.... So I gave him a scan of that picture from Ken's book... So this is how it looks now.... The back is filled with pigeon baskets and containers... You can see the Fort Benning picture in the passenger door window.. Hi Johan, well that looks neat, I really like these early ' civilian ' vehicles used in WWII. A friend here near Carentan has just acquired an early Dodge VC command car for total rebuild, as it was a militarised civilian vehicle then it still has chromed radiator cover and hood ornament, and chromed wheel caps while all the panels are o.d. painted and the original US Army hood number is actually sprayed on the underside of the hood. ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted August 22, 2012 Share #52 Posted August 22, 2012 Looks like a great project, Ken... The owner of the Panel Van shown above is currently restoring another of the early WW2 Dodges.... a VC-3 Pick Up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinb Posted August 22, 2012 Share #53 Posted August 22, 2012 Here's a picture from the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 22, 2012 Share #54 Posted August 22, 2012 At least one platoon (maybe more) of the 282nd Pigeon Signal Company was deployed to Normandy on D-Day or shortly after... For ken88's information -- what does it mean "Signal Pigeon Company"? Source: Pigeon Communication General Information Restricted War Department The Military Intelligence Training Center, Camp Ritchie, Maryland June 1944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Apathy Posted August 22, 2012 Share #55 Posted August 22, 2012 Here's a picture from the manual. Hi Robinb, thanks for the manual photo, have you any pigeon equipment in your extensive collection that hasn't been covered so far, would be nice if you could post something. ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted August 22, 2012 Share #56 Posted August 22, 2012 Here's a picture from the manual. Thanks Robin,.... from which manual is that? What date? What does it say about the PG107, mentioned on that same page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted August 22, 2012 Share #57 Posted August 22, 2012 I've got another vehicle to add in the mix. Funny how this thread developed. Starting with something as small as a pigeon vest and progressing to full size vehicles. Seems pigeon were way more important than most would think. This is from LIFE Magazine dated 12/15/1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share #58 Posted August 22, 2012 A pigeon trailer :w00t: Very helpful and interesting information! Interesting to read that the vests were used by scouting patrols as well. I thought ground personnel would have used a cardboard box but the vest will probably have been much more practical when equipment, guns, etc. were carried as well. Thanks again for all the information! Very nice pigeon thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 24, 2012 Share #59 Posted August 24, 2012 Seems pigeon were way more important than most would think. Imagine Craig that in mid-1944 the USAAF and Signal Corps developed unique system. That was state-of-the-art then method where message pigeons could be launched from the airplanes flying 300 mph! It was not such a simple method as known from the USAAC's L-Birds since late-1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted August 25, 2012 Share #60 Posted August 25, 2012 Another reference to the use of pigeons in the ETO, see picture on the right side of this site http://www.6thcav.net/6TH-CAV-HISTORY-Page-4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccyooper Posted August 25, 2012 Share #61 Posted August 25, 2012 Great thread. I don't know if it is still on display but the Signal Museum at Fort Gordon used to have a great pigeon display. I believe they even had a stuffed pigeon that was awarded a medal or carried the last message of WWII or WWI. I think the pigeon may now be on display at the Pentagon.... regards, CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted August 25, 2012 Share #62 Posted August 25, 2012 Another trailer from the 280th Signal Pigeon Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share #63 Posted August 27, 2012 Very nice! Thanks for posting, all of you... :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 30, 2012 Share #64 Posted August 30, 2012 Ken88, Here is a link to excellent book you can see below. That's downloadable 738-page publication but not computer-friendly unfortunately for my hardware and software I have and will be changing soon. What is more, download of this book is possible for Facebook registered people - am not. If you have some time off you could check if this book contains any info about airborne troops, their pigeons and pigeon gear. I would be thankful for info if it is PDF downloadable material. Best regards Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share #65 Posted August 30, 2012 Ken88, Here is a link to excellent book you can see below. That's downloadable 738-page publication but not computer-friendly unfortunately for my hardware and software I have and will be changing soon. What is more, download of this book is possible for Facebook registered people - am not. If you have some time off you could check if this book contains any info about airborne troops, their pigeons and pigeon gear. I would be thankful for info if it is PDF downloadable material. Best regards Gregory Gregory, You can count on it... I'm at it right now. Cheers, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share #66 Posted August 30, 2012 Hi Gregory: I just finished searching the document, nothing about paratroops but some interesting information though! You'll find the most interesting quotes below. Cheers, Ken Page 39: "Because of a scarcity of air transport for pigeoneers, no pigeons were used in Sicily. Colonel Hammond later stated that pigeons could have been used to great advantage in many instances. Units sent into the mountains to clear enemy points of resistance were out of communication with their parent organizations for as long as twenty-four hours, under radio silence to achieve surprise. In such cases pigeon messengers might have served well." Page 54: "Pigeons, too, won renewed respect in the mountains, carrying as many as three hundred messages a week at some headquarters." Page 65: "Pigeons, operating out of 28 lofts at 15 locations scattered over the entire army front, carried 1,810 messages." Page 70: "When the autumn rains changed to winter ice and snow, turning the front quiescent, many an isolated unit resorted to pigeon messengers to maintain contact. Mountainous terrain was not kind to wire and radio communication, but pigeons were not intimidated. The 209th Signal Pigeon Company, which had been activated in August at Cecina, Italy, delivered the birds by pack mule at night." Page 71: "Pigeons were particularly valuable to the partisans. They sewed the birds into their coat pockets, hid them beneath their jackets, or used the pigeon vest the troops of the 209th Signal Pigeon Company had devised. The birds carried back messages and overlay maps that disclosed much valuable information concerning enemy gun positions, concentration areas, and troop movements. Such partnerships between partisans and pigeons operated profitably to Bologna and as far north as Modena. By the end of December 1944, the birds had carried 10,423 messages. Until the armies jumped off in the swift spring offensive in April 1945, the 209th operated from 18 to 20 lofts all along the line. Since pigeons need time to become settled in their lofts at new locations and cannot adapt themselves to a fast-moving army, from April 1945 until V-E Day the lofts operated through the II Corps headquarters message center to the rear." Page 107: "Pigeons also landed on D-day, about five hundred of them. They were used to carry ammunition status reports, undeveloped film, and emergency messages. Communications by other means were so good, however, that the pigeon messengers were not used extensively." Page 257: "Messenger pigeons proved helpful, too, under the conditions imposed by tropical New Guinea. The tactical situation and the terrain were ideal for their use. The birds employed were Australian. They began to be used in mid-May after they had been settled at Joka, in the Hollandia area. By 25 May carrier pigeons were provided to patrols daily and often brought back important operational messages. As a result, infantrymen placed increasing confidence in this ancient mode of message sending." Page 296: "Amid these communications developments, the use of pigeons on Okinawa nearly faded away, but not quite. Pigeons could be employed, and they occasionally were, as an alternative to radio when the frequencies were clogged with too many transmissions. For example, Navy beachmasters at Buckner Bay had trouble getting prompt cargo information from incoming supply ships, data they needed to assign available anchorages. The Tenth Army Signal Section therefore gave the Navy baskets of pigeons. The birds were released from the convoys, bearing messages stating what each ship carried. Flying to their loft on the beach in a moment or two, they delivered their messages efficiently and quickly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 30, 2012 Share #67 Posted August 30, 2012 Ken, Thank you very, very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 30, 2012 Share #68 Posted August 30, 2012 "Pigeons also landed on D-day, about five hundred of them. They were used to carry ammunition status reports, undeveloped film, and emergency messages. Communications by other means were so good, however, that the pigeon messengers were not used extensively." It is interesting what percentage of those 500 pigeons belonged to both Abn Divisions... :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 30, 2012 Share #69 Posted August 30, 2012 In the meantime I downloaded this PDF book from the other official US Army website. There is a confirmation there that the PG-106/CB vest was for paratroopers. On page 643 they write: Pigeon vest, PG-106/CB, retaining a single bird, to be worn by paratrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share #70 Posted August 30, 2012 In the meantime I downloaded this PDF book from the other official US Army website. There is a confirmation there that the PG-106/CB vest was for paratroopers. On page 643 they write: Pigeon vest, PG-106/CB, retaining a single bird, to be worn by paratrooper Thanks.. I searched for 'pigeons' so I missed that part.. Some sources also mention that ground scouts (like mountain troops) used the vest as well as discussed earlier in the thread. Cheers, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambob Posted August 31, 2012 Share #71 Posted August 31, 2012 Since you probably wouldn't want to put a live pigeon in this vest these days, here is a photo of my vest with a pigeon decoy in it to show what it would look like in color. It gets a lot of attention whenever I put it out with my militaria display. It looks pretty close to the black and white photo from the signal corps posted earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted September 1, 2012 Share #72 Posted September 1, 2012 Imagine Craig that in mid-1944 the USAAF and Signal Corps developed unique system. That was state-of-the-art then method where message pigeons could be launched from the airplanes flying 300 mph! It was not such a simple method as known from the USAAC's L-Birds since late-1930s. One more interesting thing for those of you who -- as me -- connect their aviation/airborne/infantry areas of interest. It is coincidence (I did not look for anything pigeon-related) but last days I found in my library the Air Trails issue, Vol. XV No. 1, October 1940, where small but nice clipping does exist on Lockheed Hudson Mark I and its pigeon. Despite the fact that the US Armed Forces have always had their huge experience with own message pigeons also world's trends were observed in America. That American clipping mentioned shows an aircrewman of the Extended Reconnaissance Flight of No. 224 Squadron RAF with his military pigeon. That Flight, equipped with the Hudsons, operated mainly over the North Sea to observe German raiders between Norway and Scotland. There is lack of information unfortunately how that Flight used their pigeons (it could be embargoed info then), but -- who knows -- perhaps the British were first who developed a method of releasing pigeons at high speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted September 3, 2012 Share #73 Posted September 3, 2012 WWII era pigeon publications Earlier in this thread the TM 11-410 was mentioned by me but it was not the only one WWII military publication on pigeons and for military pigeoneers. I do not know if the WSCUTC* had then its own publications dedicated to operations with pigeons, but the ESCUTC** had at least one such a booklet. One more issuer of the booklets for military pigeoneers was the Military Intelligence Training Center. * Western Signal Corps Unit Training Center ** Eastern Signal Corps Unit Training Center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted September 8, 2012 Share #74 Posted September 8, 2012 Yesterday for the first time I saw and touched authentic message/racing pigeon, one of the national champions. I had to visit vet with my miniature pigeon Kropuś because he has a problem with his kidneys. An owner of this racing champion waited for his visit as well and showed me his pigeon. I was surprised very much to see how big such pigeon is. This is not Rock Dove or City Dove as we all know. Such a message pigeon is larger by approx. 40-60% of his city brother. We joked with our pigeons because my Diamond Dove is smaller than half a palm, as can be seen below where my Kropuś is on my palm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share #75 Posted September 9, 2012 What a cute bird... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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