Group to 30 year Navy man no retirement award?

[cap_george]

Hello all - I acquired this 8 medal Navy group to a Chief Quarter Master with 30 years service and continuous good conduct (9 awards NGC). I have a problem believing this chief who was also a Craft Master did not receive a Navy Commendation or Achievement medal upon his retirement. He retired in 1979. Any thoughts? Is this normal? Thanks George

 

[67Rally]

I have no issues with the absence of a NAVCOM. is that a silver star on the GCM or just 2 bronze stars?

[Jack's Son]

I'm actually surprised at the absence of the NAVCOM. Unless this guy had some REAL bad karma, or politics, I would think he would be a shoe-in for that retirement award. :dunno:

[hink441]

I retired with 20 years (USN CPO) and I did not get a retirement award. I did not think it unusual at the time, and still do not have a problem with it. I am curious, how do you arrive at 9 Navy good conducts with the ribbon pictured above?

[Kadet]

The Navy technically doesn't give awards solely for retirement. Navy "retirement" awards represent only the last tour, with some verbiage about culminating an XX year career tacked on to the end. Many possible explanations for no award. Have you looked at his record? Perhaps he received one and just never bothered to mount it. Also, "back in the day" end of tour awards weren't given as frequently as they are today. Perhaps he retired from a military treatment facility after a medical issue...perhaps he had a crappy chain of command that didn't take the time to recognize him, or perhaps he got in trouble on his last tour. Many possibilities.

[JBFloyd]

The Navy has never been too free with retirement awards, as noted above. In my experience, even if a retirement award was made, more often than not it was never mounted with his miniatures. I've also found that many retirement awards never make it into the recipient's personnel file. The individual's file is often sent to the records center within days or weeks of his retirement. When any paperwork shows up about an award, it has to follow the personnel file around in hopes that a file clerk will update the final record.

[cap_george]

I have no issues with the absence of a NAVCOM. is that a silver star on the GCM or just 2 bronze stars?

 

One silver - one I think Bronze (seems he was entitle to one silver and 2 or 3 bronze). George

[cap_george]

I'm actually surprised at the absence of the NAVCOM. Unless this guy had some REAL bad karma, or politics, I would think he would be a shoe-in for that retirement award. :dunno:

 

Yes my thoughts exactly. He seemed to be well liked and respected as far as I can tell. I think he got a retirement award and never mounted it, since he left the service. George

[cap_george]

I retired with 20 years (USN CPO) and I did not get a retirement award. I did not think it unusual at the time, and still do not have a problem with it. I am curious, how do you arrive at 9 Navy good conducts with the ribbon pictured above?

 

You are correct, I am not sure yet, need to compute time since the requirements changed for 4 to 3 years etc. George

[cap_george]

The Navy technically doesn't give awards solely for retirement. Navy "retirement" awards represent only the last tour, with some verbiage about culminating an XX year career tacked on to the end. Many possible explanations for no award. Have you looked at his record? Perhaps he received one and just never bothered to mount it. Also, "back in the day" end of tour awards weren't given as frequently as they are today. Perhaps he retired from a military treatment facility after a medical issue...perhaps he had a crappy chain of command that didn't take the time to recognize him, or perhaps he got in trouble on his last tour. Many possibilities.

 

Yes those are possibilities - I need to get his records (which I will). George

[cap_george]

The Navy has never been too free with retirement awards, as noted above. In my experience, even if a retirement award was made, more often than not it was never mounted with his miniatures. I've also found that many retirement awards never make it into the recipient's personnel file. The individual's file is often sent to the records center within days or weeks of his retirement. When any paperwork shows up about an award, it has to follow the personnel file around in hopes that a file clerk will update the final record.

 

Thanks JB that is always a possibility - George

[SEABEEBRIAN]

As others have said, the navy doesn't award retirement awards. I've seen chiefs retire without even a NAM.

[cap_george]

As others have said, the navy doesn't award retirement awards. I've seen chiefs retire without even a NAM.

 

Thats too bad - I guess they are just too cheap and indifferent.

[jeb137]

I'd like to add that this is a pre-made rack. He had to take his medals to the NEX/taylor shop, etc to get them made up.

 

If he had been awarded anything on retirement it wouldn't be on the rack - unless he has it made "after the fact".

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of us - after retirement - never have another rack made.

 

So IMHO I think this could be his last set worn. He may have had a loose medal in a drawer somewhere.

 

Just my thoughts..

 

 

Jon B.

Newaygo MI

[SEABEEBRIAN]

Thats too bad - I guess they are just too cheap and indifferent.

I wouldn't say too cheap, just frugal with most awards. Navy awards have never been handed out like in many other services.

[cap_george]

I'd like to add that this is a pre-made rack. He had to take his medals to the NEX/taylor shop, etc to get them made up.

 

If he had been awarded anything on retirement it wouldn't be on the rack - unless he has it made "after the fact".

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of us - after retirement - never have another rack made.

 

So IMHO I think this could be his last set worn. He may have had a loose medal in a drawer somewhere.

 

Just my thoughts..

Jon B.

Newaygo MI

 

Thanks Jon B. you are correct, also may explain the backwards mounted China Service Medal on his large upper bar. I am different, after retiring from the Cal. N.G. (Prior Air Force, Navy Res., Army Res.). I got a commission with the State as a Captain - Army Field Historian. I have been changing racks and medal bars ever since lol.

[Kadet]

I wouldn't say too cheap, just frugal with most awards. Navy awards have never been handed out like in many other services.

 

 

I agree. I've always been proud of the Navy's "stinginess" w/ awards. It makes the whole system more meaningful, and makes one appreciate the awards they do get. The Navy and Marine Corps fall under the same SECNAV rules for awards..but the Marine Corps is even tighter than the Navy. I served as a Marine for five years, and never received a single personal award. This wasn't unusual at all. Two good examples are the Bronze Star and Meritorious Service Medal. In the Army and AF, these awards are handed out like candy. The Navy/USMC have much tighter combat requirements for the BS. In the Navy, 05 Commanding Officers will typically receive an MSM at the end of a successful 2 year tour. I've seen the MSM awarded to E6s in the AF. Everything is relative.

 

I also noted your other thread on this group. From the photo, it looks like he also received the Combat Action Ribbon in Vietnam. Of course, this is only a ribbon and would not appear on his medal bar.

[cap_george]

I agree. I've always been proud of the Navy's "stinginess" w/ awards. It makes the whole system more meaningful, and makes one appreciate the awards they do get. The Navy and Marine Corps fall under the same SECNAV rules for awards..but the Marine Corps is even tighter than the Navy. I served as a Marine for five years, and never received a single personal award. This wasn't unusual at all. Two good examples are the Bronze Star and Meritorious Service Medal. In the Army and AF, these awards are handed out like candy. The Navy/USMC have much tighter combat requirements for the BS. In the Navy, 05 Commanding Officers will typically receive an MSM at the end of a successful 2 year tour. I've seen the MSM awarded to E6s in the AF. Everything is relative.

 

I also noted your other thread on this group. From the photo, it looks like he also received the Combat Action Ribbon in Vietnam. Of course, this is only a ribbon and would not appear on his medal bar.

 

Thanks, Combat Awards are one thing, Commendation and Achievement medals are another, so the navy's attitude does not make sense. The regs for Army Achievement Medal guideline is 1 in 10. No restrictions on retirement awards except for rank guidelines. It is interesting that the Navy is awarding all grades of the Legion of Merit to Navy Officers. I have a uniform/medal group to a Navy Captain (with command at sea, served 1918-1956) who was awarded the Bronze Star with "V" - Executive Officer of the USS New Orleans CA-32, 9 campaigns in the Pacific. - Retired as Rear Admiral (no Retirement Award!), and his records at NPRC has only 2 campaigns, these for his last ship. Sorry I don't get it. George

[MMA10mm]

My dad served 30 years, 4 active Navy and later 26 in CG Res - with last 3 yrs TAD, and he received no retirement award. Until he was awarded the CG Achievement Medal about a year before his retirement for what he was doing on TAD, his highest award was the GCM. As stated above, the naval services just do not award decorations like the Army and AF do.

[Gary B]

Hi,

 

My friend's father served in the USN in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam and his highest award was a Good Conduct medal.

 

When I was stationed in Panama I had the priveledge to know the senior serving (longest time) enlisted SEAL in the Navy. He had 30 (+) years of service, 5 with submarines and the rest with the SEALs. When he retired he recieved his 1st MSM.

 

In sharp contrast to the above when I CO Cdr in Panama I got to know one of the awards clerks (SPC4) who had been awarded a MSM for the work he did as an awards clerk.

 

I can only agree with most of the statements above, the AF and Army give out awards and create more awards than the USN and USMC.

 

Gary B

[cap_george]

Gary yes you are correct.

[Kaigun Shosa]

My Father retired from the Navy with 26 years in 1981, at his last duty station he had accomplished some significant things for the Navy and he was not awarded an end of tour award, not even a NAM. His highest award was his good conduct award.

I believe, during the 50’s, 60’s and even into the early 80’s, NAM’s and COM’s were not given out as freely as they are now.

I saw a second class petty officer wearing three NAM’s with only 5 years of service. This would be unheard of back in the 60’s or even the 70’s. I believe that the meaning as well as the criteria has significantly diminished over the years, at least for the Navy. I know the Marine Corps is still kind of stingy on awarding end of tour awards.

The current Navy culture is that an end of tour awards is almost expected and in some cases demanded. I also remember a case where a Hospitalman apprentice (E-2) received a spot NAM for being the department Combined Federal Campaign coordinator for one season! This makes me sick when these awards/medals are just given out like candy to this new generation of sailors.

Remembering all of our veterans that both served our country and even gave their lives and did not receive the proper recognition and witnessing what is going on in the Navy now, just makes me not even want or expect an award when I retire.

Sorry for the rant but just my observation and 2 cents.

Jim