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Info Req: Photo ID of AEF Uniforms


fordmustanggt_350
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fordmustanggt_350

Hey guys,

I wanted to post this as I recently acquired this photo of what I believe to be part of the 348th MG Battalion. 91st INF DIV. After scanning it and closer inspection I was pleased to find that there are at least a few that you can see wearing the Fir Tree patch which confirmed these guys belong to the 91st. However I also noticed that there is at least one guy who appears to be wearing a M1907 or M1909 coat (I am not sure which is the correct model for the coat), with the fold down collar. I do know that it was popular to wear the shirt collar on the outside of the coat and that is a possibility but it looks like the early coat collar ( I can't tell if he has bellowed pockets, it does not look like it but I am not sure). What do you guys think?

I do also understand that the Army always issues everything out until the stock is exhausted but it seems odd to me that this one guy has an early coat and everyone else your standard blouse. I also know there are a million ways he could have received it, and no one will ever know but has anyone seen an example of this before at the end of WWI. This would be 1918 or early 1919 in France.

On the off chance does anyone recoginze the church they are in front of?

 

Thanks you,

Kevin

post-2569-1343628907.jpg

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fordmustanggt_350

From the same picture here is an example of a shirt being worn outside the coat.

post-2569-1343629002.jpg

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fordmustanggt_350

So here is testing your knowledge of French Church architecture. On the 1 in a million chance does anyone know this Church?

 

Overall picture.

post-2569-1343629465.jpg

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They are wearing M1911 or M1917 coats with shirt collars pulled over the coat collar. This was a common practice to alleviate the chaffing from the wool coat collar. The coats are clearly not of the earlier patterns.

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They are wearing M1911 or M1917 coats with shirt collars pulled over the coat collar. This was a common practice to alleviate the chaffing from the wool coat collar. The coats are clearly not of the earlier patterns.

 

Agreed 100%. Shirt collars were worn this way very often.

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Choke-bellow pockets are quite distinctive -- and there are not them. I agree -- shirt collar!

 

I have seen older coats in use earlier in the war -- usually on NG troops -- but never this late or overseas. (Now someone is sure to disprove me, but that's life!)

 

G

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So here is testing your knowledge of French Church architecture. On the 1 in a million chance does anyone know this Church?

 

Overall picture.

 

Could also be in the Aachen area, the 91st Division briefly went to Aachen, it then pulled back to France, it also had elements in Belgium duiring this period.

 

http://www.newrivernotes.com/ww1/91divaef.htm#7

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fordmustanggt_350

Thank you for your comments. Looking at it after the comments you are correct they are definately shirts the collar would be closer together as well. Unfortunately the 348th was in a few different places post war before heading home so this could be a number of different places unfortunately. If anyone specifically recognizes it I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

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The unit you are seeking information on Company D, 348th Machine Gun Battalion was attached to the 182nd Infantry Brigade, 91st Infantry Division, 4th Corps, 1st U.S. Army. The first unit of this the 91st arrived in France July 20, 1918; the lest element on 29 July 1918. For training purposes the division (less artillery) was sent to the 8th Training Area in the Department of Haute-Marne with headquarters at Montigny-le-Ron. For the same purpose the artillery brigade went to Camp de Souge (Gironde), and Clermont Farrand (Puy-de-Doms). It never rejoined the division not did it participate in combat operations. On September 7, 1918, the division left the training area and moved to the vicinity of Gondrecourt with headquarters at that place. It was assigned to the reserve of the 1st American Army during the St. Mihiel Offensive and headquarters were established at Sorcy, September 21, 1918. The success of the St. Mihiel Offensive being assured the concentration of troops preparatory to the Meuse-Argonne Offensive began during the stabilization of the lines in the St. mihiel Salient. The division moved to the Vavincourt area on September 14, 1918, to the vicinity of Autrecourt September 17, and on September 20, it was concentrated in the Foret de Hesse. On September 26, it attacked on a front extending from Vauquois to a point about three kilometers east thereof. Passing through the Bois de Cheppy it made an advance of about 8 kilometers capturing the towns of Very, Epinonville, Eclistontaine, and Gesnrs. The troops were withdrawn from the last-named place, a new and shorter line having been established by the corps; the rest of the ground gained was held against strong counter-attacks and on October 4, 1918, the division was relieved by the 32nd Infantry Division and went to the vicinity of Contrisson. On October 6, the 181st Brigade was attached successively to the 1st and 32nd Infantry Divisions and participated in the attack until relieved on October 12, when it rejoined the division. On October 16, the division entrained for Belgium. Arriving October 18, it was placed at the disposal of His Majesty the King of Belgium commanding the Group of Armies in Flanders, and was assigned to the French 7th Corps. The division relieved the French 164th Division in line October 30 and participated in the Ypres-Lys Offensive October 31-November 1918. During this operation, it attacked and held Spitaals Boschen, a strongly fortified wood, captured the town of Audenande and drove the enemy east of the Scheldt River. On November 4, the division was relieved in line and withdrew to the area east of Vive St. Eloi with headquarters at Ocstroosebeke. On November b8, it passed from the French 7th Corps to the French 30th Corps and entered the front line again November 10 preparatory to the resumption of the attack and the crossing of the Scheldt River. Days in the front line: 0 (Training) 6 (Sector) 17 (Battle) for a total of 23. During operations, the division took 2,412 POWs and its casualties totaled 1,454 soldiers KIA or DOW, 4,654 WIA. After the Armistice, November 11, 1918, the division remained in Belgium until January, 1919, when it moved to the Le Mans Embarkation Center preparatory to its return to the United States. Division headquarters sailed from St. Nazaire on April 6, 1919, and arrived at New York on April 16, 1919. The division had four commanders: Major General Henry A. Green, Brigadier General James A. Irons, Brigadier General F.S. Foltz, and Major General William H. Johnston. The U.S. War Department establsihed this division on August 5, 1917 at Camp Lewis, Washington. The division was composed of draftees from California, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming. The division is known as the "Far West Division." The division insignia was a green fir tree with olive border emblematic of the Far West and representing readiness. The insignia was approved December 8, 1918. Campaign participation was as follows: Ypres-Lys Offensive and Meuse-Argonne Offensive. You can contact the U.S. Army Military Institute in Carlisle, Pennsylvania for any photographs and/or maps.

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Kevin

This picture has likely not be taken in Belgium, nor in Germany, according to the style & construction of the church and the surrounding building

In Belgium, the churches are build using bricks and not quary stones, and the houses are typical to the SARTHE region

In my opinion, this picture has been taken in the LE MANS Embarkation area, in the vicinity of LA FERTE BERNARD where the DIVISION HQ was billeted on the return trip to the US

The various units of the 91st were scattered in the villages in the nearby countryside such as

NOGENT LE BERNARD

SAINT GEORGE DU ROSAY

SAUVIGNE SUR MÊME

DEHAUT

PREVAL

SAINT GERMAIN DE LA COUDRE

La CHAPELLE DU BOIS

 

Your Belgian Friend

 

Francis

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Friends

One chance in one Million, thanks to the WEBB

 

Thanks also to one of our french forum member, dedicated to the AEF 1917-1919, the church has been identified as to be:

 

Église de Saint-Martin de Mâle : [/b]C'est une église romane, remaniée : nef romane, chevet plat, chapelle seigneuriale, portail du 12ème siècle, clocher carré du 16ème siècle en pierre de taille, maître autel du 18ème siècle, statues en pierre renaissance provenant de l'Ancienne Abbaye des Clairets, bustes reliquaires en bois peint et doré.

 

Department of lower( South) NORMANDY, but next to the Embarcation area of LE MANS-FRANCE

 

atp6qo.jpg

30myi6o.jpg

30li2kp.jpg

303hddu.jpg

 

Interested in WWI AEF and to improve your French language ( we all speak even broken English) , please join us at

http://aefcollections.forumactif.org/

 

TEUFELHUND

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fordmustanggt_350

WOW that is amazing! Thank you so much for the help! I did not think it would happen but you guys always manage to surprise me! Thank you so much for helping ID the area! Now a great picture will get an ID that was missing! Thank you!

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