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Memphis Belle: History May Have To Be Rewritten


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Shanghai Jack

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured-a...her-claims.html

 

 

Austinite's Bomber Beat Memphis Belle To Record, Researcher Claims.

 

FEATURED ARTICLE, WAR ARTICLES / BY JACK / ON JULY 16, 2012 AT 08:05 /

 

 

You can look it up: The Memphis Belle was the first heavy bomber to successfully complete 25 missions during World War II.

 

Except, says retired IBM marketing representative Jim Lux, it wasn’t. Not even close. It was a B-24 Liberator nicknamed Hot Stuff, whose crew included the late Austinite Robert T. “Jake” Jacobson, a Mississippi native who spent decades as an administrator at then-Brackenridge Hospital and who died in 2010 at 93.

 

Hot Stuff, Lux claims — and he has plenty of supporting documentation — reached that milestone against long odds at a time when many planes were being shot down, fully 3 1/2 months before the Belle. The Belle made it home safely and became a potent propaganda tool, a cause célèbre, the subject of a documentary during the war and a feature film in 1990. Hot Stuff was on its way home when, on May 3, 1943, it crashed into a mountainside in Iceland in bad weather, killing 14 of 15 aboard. Only the tailgunner survived.

 

Jacobson wasn’t on the plane. He and five other crew members were bumped from the doomed flight by Gen. Frank Andrews, often called the father of the U.S. Air Force, and his entourage. Andrews had taken over command of U.S. troops in Europe from Dwight D. Eisenhower and was expected back in Washington to collect his fourth star. Hot Stuff and her crew were to rotate home and be used to sell war bonds. Instead, because of the crash, that honor fell to the Belle, which barnstormed the country on a three-month, morale-boosting tour, and her crew.

 

“I understand why they did it,” Lux says. “I just don’t understand why Hot Stuff was forgotten. That’s just wrong.” By sheer happenstance, Lux stumbled across the information that has potential to rewrite a piece of the war’s history. An Air Force veteran himself, Lux was helping put together the program for an air show and gathering in about 1999 organized by what was formerly called the Confederate Air Force (now Commemorative Air Force). Jacobson, a golfing buddy of Lux’s in the Lost Creek subdivision, gave the younger man pictures and documents from his service years.

 

Jacobson had completed 31 missions over North Africa and Europe, and 14 over Japan — including one on the last day of the war, Aug. 14, 1945, the day of the Japanese surrender. After he received his master’s degree, he spent several years in postwar Japan, helping rebuild hospitals.”I destroyed them for this much time, and then I came back to help them rebuild,” Jacobson would say.

 

Lux went through the material. And there it was, a certificate signed by the group’s commander, Col. Edward “Ted” Timberlake, mission No. 25 over Naples, Italy, dated “7 Feb. 43.” “Jake, you didn’t tell me you guys were the first to complete 25,” Lux said, astonished.

 

“Heck, I didn’t know that,” Jacobson replied.

 

Intrigued, Lux had planned to interview the old airman who retired as a major, but Jacobson fell and died just days before they were supposed to get together. Discouraged but not deterred, Lux kept at it, with the aid of Jacobson’s daughter, Kelly Treybig, who had a great deal of her dad’s records. “I approached the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Dayton, Ohio,” Lux said. “The director wasn’t too impressed. So now I have all kinds of records and research, and I have proof.”

 

“I believe that’s the case,” said Brett Stolle, a curator at the museum. “He’s put together a pretty convincing narrative. We can’t confirm that it was the first aircraft to reach 25 missions, but it looks promising that that’s the case. It did before the Belle. There are several (including one named Hell’s Bells) that beat the Belle.”

 

Lux knows it won’t be easy rewriting a narrative that has largely held for almost 70 years. But he’s not done yet. Last month he visited the crash site with a pair of Icelandic men hoping to memorialize crash sites there during the war. (Because of frequent bad weather and heavy air traffic, both sides lost close to 20 planes over Iceland during the war, Lux said.)

 

Debris, pieces of which he brought home, still litter the mountainside. The larger pieces are in a lava field almost a half-mile away. Had the weather been clear, the pilot could have seen the airfield at which he was hoping to land. Per his friends’ suggestion, Lux is contemplating a fundraising drive to get a monument erected there, an initiative he says the American ambassador to Iceland, Luis Arrega, enthusiastically endorses, and for the museum in Dayton to include Hot Stuff in a future exhibition.

 

“It’s an incredible story that should be told and not forgotten,” Lux said. “Hot Stuff and her crew were the first to complete 25, and they were not given credit. The excuse given is the Memphis Belle returned with her crew intact. I’m not trying to take anything away from the B-17 Memphis Belle, which completed a…

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I once talked with Robert Morgan about what people think they know about the Belle's history. He told me he was tired of correcting people, he said he never agreed back then or in modern times that his B-17 was the first to hit 25 and that the movie and subsequent books screwed almost everything up.

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Will it ever go any farther then this?? :dunno:

Does it need to? Don't get me wrong, credit should go where it is due but at the time it might have been more important to just get a crew home for a bomd tour. There are so many footnotes like this to ALL history that having this one as simply another one might be better than trying to go back and change what so many people have believed for decades. The asterick next to Roger Maris' name doesn't change what I believed about him and Mickey Mantle as a kid.

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My question is just that.......a question. I don't expect there to be a special counsel appointed, just wondering out loud.

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I heard there was several bombers to beat them but had inappropriate names with bastard, devil, etc. So when Memphis Belle came out with the missions they pushed it

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America need heros at this time. The men of the 8th need to know there was hope that they could survive their missions. Morgan and the crew got cought up in the propaganda that drove not only the 8th but the AAF. Day light bombing could have been shut down. The love story with Margaret Polk did not hurt either. I bet there are many 'facts' that would not survive a good looking into. Capt. Kelly is a great example of what happens to the facts once the media gets a hold of a story.

Steve

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The clue is in the article. They completed mission 25 over Naples Italy, meaning they weren't flying with the 8th AF out of England at the time. I'm not sure what the expectation was for crew missions in the MTO, or the PTO for that matter. With the 8th they set up the 25 mission limit so the crews had an end in sight with all the losses they were taking.

 

I believe it was Hells Angels that was the first 8th AF B17 to 25 missions. As mentioned, that name might not have gone over so well with the moms and pops back home whereas the Memphis Belle was easier to promote.

 

I would imagine that the 17s flying in the PTO got to 25 missions long before the ETO/MTO birds as they would have been in action earlier.

 

The 8th AF in England got the press coverage, probably because it was the most comfortable place to cover a war for the press.

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  • 4 months later...

The B=24 Hot Stuff was in the 93rd BG, 330th BS out of Hardwick Field in England. It went on a 10 day temporary assingment that turned out to be almost three months in North Africa to assist the 12th Air Force. You can watch a video on YouTube about Hot Stuff and Gen. Andrews that tell why it is important that Hot Stuff and Gen. Andrews stories should be remembered as an important part of WW II history. You can view it at the following address:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etX1lid-8fs

 

The bombardier on Hot Stuff was as friend and I have been working for over three years to get long overdue recognition for Hot Stuff, her crew and those who were kille when Hot Stuff crash into a mountain in Iceland. For the crew of Hot Stuff, it was like winning the Super Bowl then having it taken away after half the crew was killed when their airplane crashed on the way home. Fame, fortune, books, TV, movies all went to a crew that completed its 25th mission three and a half months later.

 

I sent pieces of Hot Stuff wreckage to the National Museum of the USAF that will be included in a display that will have the newly restored B-17 Memphis Belle as the centerpiece of a display that will include three other bombers including Hot Stuff, the B-17 Hell's Angels and a bomber from the South Pacific yet to be named.

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I am sure bomber crews in the PTO flew more than 25 missions very early in the war. As for the Memphis Belle....they were not the first but they got the credit for it. It was all for public relations and moral boosting. I do not think ANY crewmember flew all 25 missions on the Belle. They were moved to other planes as needed. They all had their 25 and had flown on the Belle and that was enough'. I do not think it can be stressed too much how high the 8th's losses were at this time of the war. They were some of the first American units to strike Germany so the press was interested in the story.

 

I spoke with a 9th AAF vet. who had some harsh words to say about the crew of the Memphis Belle. He thought that after those missions they just lived the easy life. Morgan flew another tour in the PTO in B-29s and lead the first raid on Tokyo since the Doolittle raid. He also took part in the first low level fire bombing of the same city. At least 4 members did another combat tour. One of the gunners ended the war with 60 missions.

 

I view the Memphis Belle as a symbol of all the crews in the war. If in fact it was not the first plane and crew to get to 25 missions it has been accepted as such.

Steve

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As far as I am concerned, the Memphis Belle and it's crew completed their 25 missions and went on to promote the War Bond Drive at home. They got the accolades for their accomplishments and it is well deserved. The others were not recognized, yet did they just quit and go home because they were not recognized...no. They are men who served their country proudly and many died as a result...that is their legacy.

The theorists who are trying to re-write history should focus on memorializing the dead, not changing history.

My question to those bent on making this an issue is simply this. Were you there??? Were you in the skies over Europe, the Pacific or any other theatre where men served on board Army Air Force bombers??? I would suspect you were not. So, what is the motivation that drives these guys to the want of "re-writing history". Personal gain?? Fifteen minutes of fame?? I do not understand the motivation...it is over 70 years ago...let it go already!!!!!

Our focus should be to honor the men who served, let them rest in peace. Stirring up controversy such as this is degrading to the soldiers who died overseas and to those who came home after the war.

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garrettbragg12

The movie "Memphis Belle" is the movie that got me interested in WWII. Great movie, even though I'm sure it isn't completely historically accurate at all, lol.

 

 

M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland

M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield

 

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Johnny Signor

The movie "Memphis Belle" is the movie that got me interested in WWII. Great movie, even though I'm sure it isn't completely historically accurate at all, lol.

 

 

M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland

M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield

Did anyone of the forum ever notice in the "Memphis Belle" movie how they painted her name in Cursive lettering intstead of the actual "Block " type she flew with ??????????????????

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Did anyone of the forum ever notice in the "Memphis Belle" movie how they painted her name in Cursive lettering intstead of the actual "Block " type she flew with ??????????????????
There's a lot of differences between the original aircraft and the theatrical movie one. To go over them all would take a thread all its own.
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Johnny Signor

Yeah I know , but you'd think something as "Obvious" as the aircraft's name being changed in it's letter style, I know it most likely was done for Hollywood "Pizzaz" to make it look more "eye catching' , but I think they should have gone like it really was , but again that's Hollywierd" for ya !

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Johan Willaert

For starters the original Belle was an F Model, while the movie stand-in Sally B was originally a G....

 

I guess we could pick the 1989 Memphis Belle apart as far as originality is concerned but I feel that seeing that movie was made over 20 years ago, they didnb't do half bad... And after all it is just a movie...

 

I remember it sparked a considerable interest in AAF gear when it came out in Europe AND we had a wonderful time on the set...

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garrettbragg12

If you visit the belle now, you'll notice one side is has the original painting, and one side has the movie painting. They are labeled so. post-101135-135644880221.jpg

 

 

 

M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland

M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield

 

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Johnny Signor

That's great to see they did the 2 Nose art labeling, A lot of the younger generation wouldn't know about it if not being told or seeing this,Yes I agree the movie itself was O.K. and I'm not dissing it , I was just commenting on how there are those who want- like as much authenticity in a film about a "specific" aircraft , unitforms etc , it's not like there wasn't tons of photos of the "Belle" to work from, and yes I knew she wasn't the right model "17 " in the movie either, the F models are few and far between .

They got the colors of "Belles" outfit right at least , blue one side , red the other .

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After reading this thread I thought I would share some photos I took about 10 years ago. I was flying around upstate NY and landed at the Geneseo airfield ( D52 ) This was, I believe, in September about a week before their warbird flyin. This B-17, orig built as a " G " model restored to resemble a " F " model with "Memphis Belle" markings, was parked on the grass and there were very few people at the airfield at the time. This allowed me to take series of hard to get photos of a B-17 on grass with no one around. I only wish I hade a better camera at the time. Anyway some of you may enjoy seeing them. A few of them I gave a period look.

 

ATD

 

PS on a internet site- Civilian History:

44-83546 was purchased by National Metals Co. of Phoenix, Arizona for the sum of $2,687.00 and then sold to Fast Way Air of Long Beach, California. 44-83546 became N3703G on the US civil register. In 1960 she was converted to a water bomber and operated as Tanker 78. In 1978 N3703G was sold to TBM Inc. of Tulare, California who continued to operate her as a tanker until the late 1970s. N3703G was purchased by the Military Aircraft Restoration Corporation (MARC) in 1982. MARC, owned by David Tallichet was a wartime B-17 pilot with the 100th bomb group. He and his staff restored the B-17G to resemble a B-17F. The restoration included reinstallation of power turrets, early tail gunners compartment, early sperry dorsal turret recovered from a south Pacific wreck and adding a 94th BG paint scheme.

post-106091-0-47302600-1356478737_thumb.jpg

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