Drone pilots to get medals

[rr01]

........Where I still see a problem is that, according to the suggested order of precedence, this new medal would rank higher than the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal, Air Medal, Commendation Medal and Achievement Medal. If that is the case, I would certainly hope that the military establishes some pretty high standards for what merits such an award and doesn't intend to just hand them out to any drone pilot for simply doing his job.

I agree with you there, I have to wonder who they are really trying to make happy and I think it is the guys who are normally awarded DFCs. In the past few conflicts there has been a real hullaballoo each time some stateside maint officer received a Bronze Star for launching B~1s, ~2s or the venerable Bongo 5-2. Except the reg for the Bronze Star allows for that award to folks in combat support. The same for the USAF Aerial Achievement Medal being a more benign version of the Air medal. I just read a base paper article about a helicopter pilot having roughly twenty of each medal probably because the award criteria is one sortie per day counting toward each award so one sortie toward the Air Medal and one for the Aerial Achievement. We had the same rules in Vietnam, ten sorties into North Vietnam or twenty down south for an air medal, all on different days.

Yeah, it's a mess but it's a different military than the one I was in, especially the ops tempo. I had it good compared to these guys so I'll let the current leadership decide if all these medals will make a difference.

Thanks for the extra clarification.

[12A54]

These drone operators are an integral part of the operation. The nature of warfare is changing. If one of them succeeds in taking out a high priority target, give them a Legion of Merit. If they take out the highest priority target, give them a DSM. If they do indeed invest the time, focus, stress, and effort toward a campaign's success then award them an Air Medal or Aerial Achievement Medal. If they are activelyn articipating in the campaign, allow them to wear the relevant campaign medal. Put a distinguishing appurtenance on the ribbon to show it's a drone award. Reverse the colors of the ribbon perhaps. But don't create an unnecessary new garish and inappropriately ranked medal when there are plenty of traditional and existing solutions available.

[Spikehsv]

:thumbdown:

Posted at 02:40 PM ET, 07/09/2012

 

By Al Kamen

 

The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.

 

Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal’s “unique concept,” Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister.

 

Mugno said most combat decorations require “boots on the ground” in a combat zone, but he noted that “emerging technologies” such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat.

 

The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno’s institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.

 

The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk “between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles.”

 

A “manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat” is deemed in “combat,” Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered “combat support.”

 

The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier’s Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone.

 

 

YGBSM! :thumbdown:

[emccomas]

I understand your point, but does this mean we are taking the easy way out by offering valor medals and hazardous duty pay as incentives for retention?

I know this is the price of doing business, and retention is important, but why not call a spade a spade. Achievement medals, and higher temporary rank for those who stay in the program?

 

This discussion is beginning to remind me of the 27th Maine...

 

There are plenty of ways of recognizing exceptional effort without creating another award....

 

Any guesses as to what the nickname for this thing will be...

[Jack's Son]

Any guesses as to what the nickname for this thing will be...

Video Valor.....ATA-Boy Awards....Retention Ribbons

[pchepurko]

After reading some of the above posts I still cannot understand why it is needed to reward people for just doing their job. They volunteered for service, what additional incentive do they need. If retention is an issue then bring back the draft. Each and every person in the USA has, in my opinion, an obligation to serve their country in some manner. Many countries have a "service" requirement. And before you ask, Yes, I did serve, USMCR 1984-1990.

[Too Much WW1 Militaria]

Having served in the US Army for 28 years, I agree that there are too many awards. When I went to Vietnam in 1969 as a 11B, awards criteria were all over the map, depending on the unit. The USMC has always been stringent on awards, the Army all over the map it seems, and the USAF, well not sure on that one, but they seemed to be easier on some and harder on others. The point has been made that the nature of warfare is slowly changing (but the truth is that if you want to hold or hang onto something, muddy boots on the ground is the way).

 

By the time I retired, compared to when I went in, we seemed to have an award or ribbon for just about everything. Kinda like the 13th place trophy. I'm in the camp that we don't need a new award, but we do need the award criteria spelled out clearer and updated to reflect the changing nature of warfare. Part of me can't help but wonder if some of this is conflict between the manned and un-manned camps in both the USAF and USAR. At the end of the day, the UAV budget is growing, at least in my business.

 

Do they need an award for doing as Paul points out, their jobs. Then again, does a slick pilot coming into a hot LZ to get wounded out deserve an award for doing his or her job? If we use the job criteria, nobody gets an award. The best award I ever received was "Hey Sarge, you're really a good NCO" from one of my guys. In reality, those were the sort of awards that kept me going. The rest? Well, at the end of the day, they are a sentence in my obit.

 

My .02,

 

John

[hawkdriver]

Do they need an award for doing as Paul points out, their jobs. Then again, does a slick pilot coming into a hot LZ to get wounded out deserve an award for doing his or her job? If we use the job criteria, nobody gets an award. The best award I ever received was "Hey Sarge, you're really a good NCO" from one of my guys. In reality, those were the sort of awards that kept me going. The rest? Well, at the end of the day, they are a sentence in my obit.

 

My .02,

 

John

 

Well John, unfortunately, all those baubles and awards now equate out to promotion points. So the guy that only gets the ultimate awards of verbal cudos from the troops is the guy that won't be retained because he can't get promoted due to lack of points. The guy that picks up tons of baubles and has them documented will get points and be the one that gets the reward of promotion. So, as I said earlier, you can see, there are alterior motives towards getting a #4 ranked medal for sitting in a box.

[Johnnymac]

IMO - the drone pilots are under the same pressures as a battle ship firing 30-40 miles away. Or the ship crew of a carrier hundreds of miles away from their pilots who are engaged in the action. Each man, in each branch of service has his assigned duty, not everyone gets to shoot a gun, and not everyone gets to his pick job. The drone pilot also has the added pressures have to make sure that he does not wound or kill friendlies all from thousands of feet in the air and from hundred miles away. I have seen hundreds of big bad hunter who could not hit the bull sitting on a bench at 50 yards. I for one do not look down on anothers job untill I have walked in their shoes. See below, the history books are full of people who got medals for other things, other than being on the front line., This is of course is just my - IMO, Jim

 

 

[CHASEUSA11B]

I don't think the issue here is whether or not drone pilots are worthy of respect or doing a difficult job, the issue is with creating unnecessary medals. I have several close friends who are drone pilots, or sensor operators and I have all the respect in the world for them. As a matter of fact I tried to enlist in the Air National Guard last year to become a sensor operator. I got my security clearance, went to MEPS, passed my physical and was on my merry way until my recruiter (a friend of a friend who was pushing me through) informed me that they had to close the position to untrained Airmen because so many trained pilots were getting out of active duty to fill the spot. As it stood, I was already on the bottom of a long list to get a position and as it stands I'm on a three year waiting list. So don't think there's a very big problem with retention.

 

My friend who initially talked me into trying to join was Black hawk pilot, and Apache pilot with multiple deployments to Iraq and is now an Air Guard officer and drone pilot. According to him there is no comparison---four hours in the box at a time with four day shifts is nothing compared to yearlong deployments away from family. His entire selling point to me was how I could still be part of the mission (which is what I was looking for) without any of the stress or hardships. The unit even has a squad bar to relax and have beers when they get off. He laughs about his flight suit and does not consider piloting a drone anything close to flying the real thing.

 

For those of you who don't know, when a target is acquired the pilot pushes the button after getting clearance but the sensor operator is the one who guides it in. Most operator/pilot teams never have a kill, and even when they do it isn't the same as shooting someone at close range or having rounds flying back at you. Difficult? Yes. Deserving of special awards? Absolutely not. Again, I mean no disrespect to these professionals, and if a spot opened up I would take it in a minute.

 

As for the emotional stress involved in piloting the drone, well that comes with any job in the military. Your reward is your pride in service and the uniform you wear, not hand out medals and ribbons to make you feel better. Airmen who graduate Basic Training today now wear as many ribbons as the average soldier returning from three years of combat in World War 2. Enough is enough.

[seanmc1114]

Do they need an award for doing as Paul points out, their jobs. Then again, does a slick pilot coming into a hot LZ to get wounded out deserve an award for doing his or her job? If we use the job criteria, nobody gets an award.

My understanding at least of how decorations for valor are intended to be awarded is that they are to recognize the acts of those who go above and beyond simply doing their duty. I can't remember where I have seen it, but it seems to me somewhere in the Army's awards regulations their is guidance language which says in a nutshell that the basic criteria for determining if an award for valor is justified is a conclusion by the awarding authority that had the person not acted in the way he did, it would not have brought any discredit or disciplinary action on him. In other words, nobody would have criticized the recipient if he hadn't done what he did. If that is the case, a decoration under these circumstances would never be justified simply for doing one's job.

[rr01]

Decorations are a very small part of the retention package and trails far behind medical and educational benefits of which the educational bennies are the ones most touted in recruitment, not all the fruit salad you will acquire over a career, or for just finishing basic training.

They are also a very small part of the promotion package and are probably the least considered behind job knowledge, individual performance and just plain time in.

The lingering question for me is: who commissioned this award research in the first place? You can be sure it wasn't the guy sitting in his plush recliner at the console in Nv, Az, NM or Minn. I doubt it was the squad launching their drone from the back of a HumVee in theater. So who has this interest and why?

The guy doing the job already has job satisfaction or he/she would not be there. The guy in the field may have a little less job satisfaction but that is the way of all grunts anyway. Will this award improve quality of life? Maybe if it is a couple extra points for promotion but if you need those couple extra points then you should, instead have a better test score {opinion of a former supervisor who was once criticized by a subordinate for a lower performance report}.

Maybe the review board will see the error of more awards and opt for the plethora of existing ones.

And while everyone might be doing their jobs these jobs are not something just anyone can do. The all volunteer force brought about the end of many programs such as Cat IVs, guys who were enlisted or drafted who needed help tying their shoes but were still very able mechanics, cooks and other type support that could be closely supervised. But that's another topic.

[pchepurko]

Decorations are a very small part of the retention package and trails far behind medical and educational benefits of which the educational bennies are the ones most touted in recruitment, not all the fruit salad you will acquire over a career, or for just finishing basic training.

They are also a very small part of the promotion package and are probably the least considered behind job knowledge, individual performance and just plain time in.

The lingering question for me is: who commissioned this award research in the first place? You can be sure it wasn't the guy sitting in his plush recliner at the console in Nv, Az, NM or Minn. I doubt it was the squad launching their drone from the back of a HumVee in theater. So who has this interest and why?

The guy doing the job already has job satisfaction or he/she would not be there. The guy in the field may have a little less job satisfaction but that is the way of all grunts anyway. Will this award improve quality of life? Maybe if it is a couple extra points for promotion but if you need those couple extra points then you should, instead have a better test score {opinion of a former supervisor who was once criticized by a subordinate for a lower performance report}.

Maybe the review board will see the error of more awards and opt for the plethora of existing ones.

And while everyone might be doing their jobs these jobs are not something just anyone can do. The all volunteer force brought about the end of many programs such as Cat IVs, guys who were enlisted or drafted who needed help tying their shoes but were still very able mechanics, cooks and other type support that could be closely supervised. But that's another topic.

 

Oustanding point and spot on!

[Too Much WW1 Militaria]

Never gave the points thing a thought when writing this, but, you are correct. Then again, I was maxed out early on, points-wise. And, physically, I'm paying for it now. Was a different time way back when. Now that I think about it, there were some times when the promotion points were sitting at 999 in a lot of MOS'es. Still, to me personally, the verbal kudos meant more. Then again, bad NCOer's will get you sunk too.

 

Either way, the system has never been fair. Too dependent on the quality of your chain, how hard they push, how well they write, and lets face it, personality factors (since I can't use other language on this thing) come into play too. Frankly, with all the PC, OPTEMPO, etc., I'm glad I'm done, and in many ways I don't envy the young guys and gals that are carrying the ball now. Off my soapbox and done beating this dead horse. What we could do collectively is write our repersentitives about this. I agree that some sort of award should be given, but, to rank it right behind a Silver Star seems a little nuts to me.

 

John

 

 

Well John, unfortunately, all those baubles and awards now equate out to promotion points. So the guy that only gets the ultimate awards of verbal cudos from the troops is the guy that won't be retained because he can't get promoted due to lack of points. The guy that picks up tons of baubles and has them documented will get points and be the one that gets the reward of promotion. So, as I said earlier, you can see, there are alterior motives towards getting a #4 ranked medal for sitting in a box.

[patches]

They should award them something along the lines of an Army shooting badge. Whether you are designated Marksman, Sharpshooter, or Expert depends on the number of "kills" you achieve.

 

Right Kurt, I agree A 1000 %, something along the lines of the Misslemans Badge, it could be signed in a similar way as a large pocket metal and cloth version like the Misslemans badge in the image here.

[vietvet7071]

Since we were on the subject of drones - will there be a medal for this?

[rr01]

Since we were on the subject of drones - will there be a medal for this?

They don't get medals for that but maybe a spiffy flight suit.

[trenchbuff]

This is why I collect old things. I'm really out of touch with "today".

[juvatwad]

UAV 'pilot' receives air medal Released: Dec 1, 1997

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Airman 1st Class Monica Munro

Air Warfare Center Public Affairs

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. (AFNS) -- An 11th Reconnaissance Squadron unmanned aerial vehicle operator was recently awarded the Air Force Aerial Achievement Medal for safely landing a UAV after its engine seized 150 miles from the ground control station at Mostar Air Base, Bosnia-Herzegovina.

 

Capt. Greg Harbin was able to remotely glide the unmanned aircraft for about 30 miles, avoiding populated areas and maneuvering the UAV to the airfield where it could be safely recovered. The landing was made more difficult because the nose camera, used as the primary pilot camera, iced over during the descent and the aircraft was being controlled by its satellite link, which causes a delay in aircraft control response time.

 

According to Harbin, the engine quit at about 18,000 feet, leaving about 20 minutes of battery power left to recover the aircraft.

 

"As I descended through an overcast deck, the nose camera iced over which meant that at sometime I'd have to turn the payload sensor back on and try to find the field. The aircraft has no instrumentation so I had to find the field visually."

 

With engine failure, impending link failure, and a limited visual picture, Harbin said the situation was tense.

 

"This emergency felt no different than any airplane, the same emotions were there," Harbin said. "If I would have made a mistake, I would have killed somebody."

 

 

What a harrowing tale of combat from such an awe inspiring airman.

 

I was still active duty when this happened. I think someone used that article as TP in the squadron ops crapper.

 

Ian

[rr01]

What a harrowing tale of combat from such an awe inspiring airman.

 

I was still active duty when this happened. I think someone used that article as TP in the squadron ops crapper.

 

Ian

How did you find out? Were you the PLO? ;-}

[hawkdriver]

"This emergency felt no different than any airplane, the same emotions were there," Harbin said.

 

As I said before, all the same emotions, except the one of impending death. Having been in situations where I have had real emergencies and had to land with a EP, having been shot at by heavy machine guns and small arms, having had a guy try to launch a RPG-7 at me, having been aimed at with a SA-7 missile crew, I can, with great confidence, say that he wasn't feeling the same emotions. I also find it amusing that had he not dead sticked this UAV in, someone "would" have died. How can he make that assessment? Literally, dozens of these things fell out of the air on both of my OIF rotations, and not one single case did they fall on anyone. The most dangerous thing about the crash was the poor grunts that had to drive trucks out to the crash site and recover the scrap metal in the blazing heat.

Now, had he had to eject his GI Joe if he didn't make it and then roll the dice I mentioned before, then I would buy the emotions thing, but in this case, I'm not buying it.

[Tommymonkey192]

As it is drone operators already have their own wings.

 

[seanmc1114]

As it is drone operators already have their own wings.

 

Here's an article about the design and first awarding of the UAV Operator wings:

 

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2...s-new-set-wings

 

I love the description of the symbolism of the badge:

 

"The actual wings are similar to those on the standard Air Force Pilot badge to signify that, while remotely piloted, UAVs are still planes in the air, subject to the same laws of physics and principles of flight as piloted aircraft. But the shield is wholly unique. Its shape mirrors that of the traditional design, but the insignia within is specific to the remotely-piloted aircraft mission.

 

The globe represents the world in which Airmen operate and the global reach of American air power, a reach facilitated by the unmanned aircraft. The rays of light symbolize both the dawn of a new age of aviation as well as the UAV's ability to shed light on far-flung corners of the planet. And the lightning bolt? It's just a reminder that though the primary objective of many unmanned missions is surveillance and reconnaissance, remotely piloted aircraft reserve the capability to rain down some fire (specifically Hellfire) if needs be."

 

Well yes, the UAV's are still subject to the same laws of physics as piloted aircraft, but the operators are not.

[12A54]

"This emergency felt no different than any airplane, the same emotions were there," Harbin said.

 

Hawk - completely agree. Absolutely ridiculous assertion. Perhaps the most absurd quote from this: "As I descended through an overcast deck....". Not "As the model airplane I was controlling on the video screen descended through an overcast deck...." At the VFW in 2025 it will be, "There I was, ...."

[hawkdriver]

At the VFW in 2025 it will be, "There I was, ...."

 

Ha ha! I hadn't thought of that one.