rr01 Posted March 13, 2013 Share #276 Posted March 13, 2013 This just in; "SecDef sides with UAV consortium by accepting new aircraft for his use into the USAF VIP fleet" ;-} Tongue in cheek of course only to lighten this up a bit because the image actually came from an article regarding the expanded use of drones which was highlighted last week in DC. Many articles have been written about this award, both pro & con but the one thing being constantly overlooked is how this award is intended to be awarded in place of the DFC and Air Medal. It is intended to be an exclusively achievement based award having absolutely nothing to do with valor. How many remember the upgrade of the Purple Heart to it's current precedence? That award was in it's previous place since being created and I doubt any of the recipients ever complained about where it went on the ribbon bar. Look at the valor awards that came along afterward, particularly the Commendation medals. Look, these men and women were all satisfied to have it pinned to their pillows or tunics as opposed to having it mailed to their families. Where did the lobby for the upgrade come from? And when it happened I doubt anyone felt it should not have been upgraded. How many also remember when the Army didn't need such large pocket flaps or merit badge sashes for all those badges? None of the other services have such a need for recognition of a qualification though it IS getting pretty bad for the Air Force. The Air Force used to just give out "Blue Rockets" but now they spend all their money trying to figure out a new uniform. And then there are the Marines. There will always be the Marines; 237 years of tradition unhampered by progress ;-} This past weekend I spoke with a Marine enlisted UAV crew about all things UAV. Of course they have no use for this medal which begged my rhetorical question; if awarded, will you wear it? After all, the recommendation for any award comes from the next echelon. They also spoke without envy about the wings their USAF counterparts receive upon completion of training. Those were short topics because the most important thing I wanted to hear from them was how they felt about their mission and contribution on the battlefield. Yes, they are primarily recon but I also doubt you will see them sporting any insignia similar to their more highly trained Recon counterparts but their enthusiasm is no less. And I dare say it is the same for the rest of the UAV community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted March 13, 2013 Share #277 Posted March 13, 2013 And the Legion of Merit is just under the Silver Star but above the DFC, Soldiers Medal, Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Why is that not appropriate for a Drone operator? Or an MSM or Commendation Medal depending on the level of contribution? I just don't get why they need a new/specific medal. How I read it once, is higher awards are granted to higher ranks with more responsibility, namely manpower, below them for psychological reasons. And award is psychological reassurance that what one did is okay. The higher you are, the more people you send to die, the more it weighs on your psychologically, the higher award to cope psychologically Drone pilots don't have that problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted March 21, 2013 Share #278 Posted March 21, 2013 Lightening the tone a little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #279 Posted March 22, 2013 Lightening the tone a little... L L!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg0223 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #280 Posted March 22, 2013 I am a militaria collector, so there is no way I think there are too many medals being awarded. I like the design of this medal, and I hope it goes into production, because I would like to add one to my collection. That said, I think there is an easy solution to this issue. Just place this medal somewhere in the order of precedence near the commendation and achievement medals. I think that's where it belongs. Although, that's obviously for smarter people to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #281 Posted March 22, 2013 Too good to resist. The byproducts of sequestration..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #282 Posted March 22, 2013 Too good to resist. The byproducts of sequestration..... I like the idea of using drones.It does save a pilot from being put in harms way.But there is no way that a combat pilot and a drone 'pilot' are the same or even come close to being put into that same situation.When a drone pilot has to go thru SERE then maybe they can say they are a combat pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #283 Posted March 22, 2013 I like the idea of using drones.It does save a pilot from being put in harms way.But there is no way that a combat pilot and a drone 'pilot' are the same or even come close to being put into that same situation.When a drone pilot has to go thru SERE then maybe they can say they are a combat pilot. This was a lighthearted post but since you brought it up SERE is really over rated but if you think it will create parity then maybe it will be worth it. Now, my question is should they go through the full course, the ROTC version or the summer version at the academy? Graduation from the latter two is the equivalent of the former just as putting jump wings on cadets for a "finger wave" course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #284 Posted March 22, 2013 This was a lighthearted post but since you brought it up SERE is really over rated but if you think it will create parity then maybe it will be worth it. Now, my question is should they go through the full course, the ROTC version or the summer version at the academy? Graduation from the latter two is the equivalent of the former just as putting jump wings on cadets for a "finger wave" course. I never said anything about your pic.I was just saying I like the idea of the drones.And I was trying to say that if a drone goes down the worse thing a 'pilot' will get is maybe an article 31.They don't have to worry about escape and evade or being taken prison or worse of all being KIA.So if they think the deserve a special medal then by all means let them have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted March 22, 2013 Share #285 Posted March 22, 2013 They don't have to worry about escape and evade or being taken prison or worse of all being KIA. This is the point of the medal discussion (obviously). While there is, no doubt stress associated with the role of a drone pilot - air support for ground troops and the risks of failing in that capacity, the loss of life with collateral damage, etc.) the personal/physical risks are non-existent. Besides the discussion surrounding the medal order precedence, the idea that yet another medal is needed is odd when considering the more costs (medal design, production, inventorying, paperwork, etc.) among the economic climate coupled with the fact that existing medals can achieve the appropriate level of recognition (AFCOM)...the medal isn't needed. At this point, would a drone pilot even WANT the medal should it be presented considering all the outrage and bad publicity associated with it? The medal could be perceived negatively among the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #286 Posted March 22, 2013 This is the point of the medal discussion (obviously). While there is, no doubt stress associated with the role of a drone pilot - air support for ground troops and the risks of failing in that capacity, the loss of life with collateral damage, etc.) the personal/physical risks are non-existent. Besides the discussion surrounding the medal order precedence, the idea that yet another medal is needed is odd when considering the more costs (medal design, production, inventorying, paperwork, etc.) among the economic climate coupled with the fact that existing medals can achieve the appropriate level of recognition (AFCOM)...the medal isn't needed. At this point, would a drone pilot even WANT the medal should it be presented considering all the outrage and bad publicity associated with it? The medal could be perceived negatively among the ranks. I know what the point of the discussion is.I posted awhile back that there is no need for another medal when there are more than enough out there to cover any of the criteria's for the new medal.Commendation or Achievement medals.The could also maybe change the criteria of the Aerial Achievement Medal for drone pilots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted March 22, 2013 Share #287 Posted March 22, 2013 I know what the point of the discussion is.I posted awhile back that there is no need for another medal when there are more than enough out there to cover any of the criteria's for the new medal.Commendation or Achievement medals.The could also maybe change the criteria of the Aerial Achievement Medal for drone pilots? Sorry, man...I didn't mean to sound condescending (which it appears that I was with that post). We are in agreement about this. I suppose I was having a Captain Obvious-moment. My apologies for not minding my tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #288 Posted March 22, 2013 Sorry, man...I didn't mean to sound condescending (which it appears that I was with that post). We are in agreement about this. I suppose I was having a Captain Obvious-moment. My apologies for not minding my tone. No problem, thanks. I know where you're coming from.It just gets so redundant with all these medals and badges that are out there.As a collector I like to see new things but as a vet it get's to the point of disgust.UGH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #289 Posted March 22, 2013 This just in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 22, 2013 Share #290 Posted March 22, 2013 This just in.... Cool, Aerial Achievement like I suggested. So is that 8 plus one as a drone pilot or all 8 as a drone pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #291 Posted March 22, 2013 Cool, Aerial Achievement like I suggested. So is that 8 plus one as a drone pilot or all 8 as a drone pilot? See, people DO listen to you. I still haven't figured out about the oak leaves but I'm more worried I might end up with a .OSD behind my E~mail for helping with this ;-} I'm sure there are plenty of new suggestions still lurking out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead8007 Posted March 22, 2013 Share #292 Posted March 22, 2013 This just in.... How about bronze and silver drone devices instead of oakleaves? That way there's no confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted March 23, 2013 Share #293 Posted March 23, 2013 How about bronze and silver drone devices instead of oakleaves? That way there's no confusion. Great idea.You must be a frigin 20 star general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted April 15, 2013 Share #294 Posted April 15, 2013 http://www.usatoday....change/2085035/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted April 15, 2013 Share #295 Posted April 15, 2013 In light of the new decision and because of the length of this topic, we've started a new one here http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/173917-secretary-of-defense-cancels-creation-of-new-drone-cyber-medal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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