MMA10mm Posted February 19, 2013 Share #251 Posted February 19, 2013 Well, it hasn't taken long: 2/13: "Pentagon creates medal for cyber, drone wars" http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/ap-pentagon-creates-new-medal-for-cyber-drone-wars-021313/ 2/13: "New medal for drone pilots outranks Bronze Star" http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/military-new-medal-for-drone-pilots-outranks-bronze-star-021313/ 2/14: "New high-tech warfare medal draws backlash" http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/military-new-high-tech-medal-distinguised-warfare-medal-draws-backlash-021413 2/15: "Petition - change medals order of precedence" http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/military-petitioners-want-new-medals-order-precedence-changed-021513/ 2/15: "Purple Heart group - 'New medal insulting'" http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/military-group-calls-new-medal-insulting-021513w 2/16: "Petition-lower precedence of new drone medal" (new article in spite of same title; talking about the 5000 signatures in one day on the petition) http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2013/02/military-petition-lower-rank-of-drone-medal-021813w/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hink441 Posted February 19, 2013 Share #252 Posted February 19, 2013 Another question I have is the devices used to denote additional awards of the DWM. The awarding criteria state that oak leaf clusters will be worn by members of the Army and Air Force, while members of the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast guard will wear 5/16 inch stars. Since this medal is awarded in the name of the Secretary of Defense, does it seem odd to anyone else that additional awards are not denoted solely by oak leaf clusters regardless of the branch of the recipient, like the Joint Service Achievement and Commendation Medals and the Defense Meritorious, Superior and Distinguished Service Medals? The instruction from the Secretary of Defense staes that each individual service Secretary is the approval authority for awards. It also says that each service issues future awards and devices per that service's instructions. The Navy and Marine Corp. uses stars, and the Army and USAF use Oak Leaf Clusters. Who is to say the Army is right, or the Navy is right ??? I notice the SECDEF instruction also mis-spelled "ordinance" in their description of the new medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastpost Posted February 19, 2013 Share #253 Posted February 19, 2013 Since it seems that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was the "decider" in this medal's creation and its ultimate placement in the order of precedence I think that his total lack of understanding when it comes to aspects of military tradition is what has come into play. From reading all the posts in this thread it seems that almost universal response to this misadventure in decoration has been very negative to say the least. I have little doubt that the idea was broached within the rarified air of the Pentagon but was not brought up much to troops with their well worn boots on the ground. Typical bureaucratic decision making. We have all seen this before - people who get so wrapped up in the goodness or greatness of their project that they are incapable or unwilling to step back and see how everyone else is going to view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted February 27, 2013 Share #254 Posted February 27, 2013 This just in: http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?id=123337305. Buried deep in here in a paragraph many will probably not read is the part about valor. Since this is not a valorous award it cannot rank over any other valorous award. Sure, precedence on a ribbon rack might lead the uninitiated to believe differently but in fact it is merely a ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted February 27, 2013 Share #255 Posted February 27, 2013 Not wishing to contentious, but aren't "precedence" and "ranking" basically synonyms? Anyhoo, what's done is done. Nobody but us will even remember this was an issue a year from today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastpost Posted February 27, 2013 Share #256 Posted February 27, 2013 Not quite done is done: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/26/gop-house-members-aim-bill-new-medal-drone-pilots/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted February 27, 2013 Share #257 Posted February 27, 2013 Not quite done is done: http://www.washingto...l-drone-pilots/ Interesting response. But the article doesn't exactly get all of the facts correct. Here's a quote with my emphasis added in italics: " Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta announced the creation of the Distinguished Warfare Medal two weeks ago. It is to bestowed on drone pilots and cyberwarriors for extraordinary acts of valor outside of a combat zone." The gist of the story about the controversy in terms of the medal's precedence is correct, but as many have pointed out in this topic, the criteria for the award as announced by Sec. Panetta specifically indicate the award is not intended to recognize acts of valor. When I see stories like this with obvious errors in facts that I am aware of, it always makes me wonder what other "facts" I am reading about in other stories that I am not aware are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted February 28, 2013 Share #258 Posted February 28, 2013 Interesting response. But the article doesn't exactly get all of the facts correct. Here's a quote with my emphasis added in italics: " Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta announced the creation of the Distinguished Warfare Medal two weeks ago. It is to bestowed on drone pilots and cyberwarriors for extraordinary acts of valor outside of a combat zone." I declined pot once despite the peer pressure...that that count as valor outside a combat zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted February 28, 2013 Share #259 Posted February 28, 2013 I declined pot once despite the peer pressure...that that count as valor outside a combat zone? Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted February 28, 2013 Share #260 Posted February 28, 2013 Not quite done is done:http://www.washingto...l-drone-pilots/ Oh, then the budget issues have been fully resolved and we can finally move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniformcollector Posted February 28, 2013 Share #261 Posted February 28, 2013 They should stick to service medals and maybe create altered air medals (as said before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
market garden Posted February 28, 2013 Share #262 Posted February 28, 2013 Curios, How many promotion points will be given with the medal? Give them a beenie with a propeler on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decwriter Posted March 1, 2013 Share #263 Posted March 1, 2013 The Air Force has stated it will be worth 5 promotion points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memphismeister Posted March 2, 2013 Share #264 Posted March 2, 2013 New bill would reduce rank of drone medal By Rick Maze - Staff writer Posted : Tuesday Feb 26, 2013 16:42:18 EST A trio of Republican lawmakers moved Tuesday to prevent the Defense Department from establishing the Distinguished Warfare Medal for drone operators as an award that ranks higher than the Bronze Star or Purple Heart. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California, Timothy Murphy of Pennsylvania and Tom Rooney of Florida, introduced H.R. 833, a rare bill that tells the Defense Department how to set the precedence of medals. While introduced as a stand-alone bill, there is a strong chance the legislation will end up as an amendment to the 2014 defense authorization bill, congressional sources said. The Defense Department’s announcement that the new Distinguished Warfare Medal for operators of unmanned aerial vehicles would rank above awards for ground combat troops has drawn criticism from combat veterans. On Tuesday morning, the national commander of the 2.4 million-member American Legion, the nation’s largest veterans groups, urged Legionnaires to include complaints about the medal in conversations with lawmakers. Hunter, an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran, said there is a difference between direct combat and flying a drone from a safe location. “Those engaged in direct combat put their lives on the line, accepting extraordinary personal risk,” Hunter said. “There is nothing wrong with having a military award that recognizes commendable actions off the battlefield, but it’s absolutely necessary to ensure that combat valor awards are not diminished in any way.” Rooney, an Army veteran, said he has “grave concerns” about the ranking of the new medal. “There is no greater sacrifice than risking your own life to save another on the battlefield, and the order of precedence should appropriately reflect the reverence we hold for those willing to make that sacrifice.” Murphy, who served in the Navy, said the legislation would not be necessary if the Pentagon would, on its own, reduce the ranking of the award. “If the Pentagon will not reconsider the decision to rank this medal above the Purple Heart, the House will take action.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted March 2, 2013 Share #265 Posted March 2, 2013 “If the Pentagon will not reconsider the decision to rank this medal above the Purple Heart, the House will take action.” That would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMA10mm Posted March 3, 2013 Share #266 Posted March 3, 2013 I'm sure it will have to be legislated. Someone at the Pentagon would have to admit their error for it to be changed internally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted March 10, 2013 Share #267 Posted March 10, 2013 How/Why are we dragging politics into a medal discussion? There are big philosophical issues to discuss, but not in the political arena. I know it's an election year, but I doubt any activity on here is going to effect the vote. The real question is/should be - what do you think of the idea of a separate medal for UAV pilots? I think if you want to have an internet fight, there's plenty to fight over just with that question. For example, I personally believe having a "separate-but-equal" decoration for unmanned a/c pilots is disparaging to their honor/credit/recognition. We don't have to go into the political ramifications of where and when it's right. (Just to be clear, none of our opinions amount to beans about that question, anyway. Pseudo-military, para-military, and civilians have been part of combat forever as well, just as atrocities have happened... There were "spies" in the American Civil War, OSS in WWII, and Spooks in Vietnam. Whether you agree with their actions/existence/participation, just doesn't matter. They're going to happen... BUT, a new UAV-Cross does NOT have to happen! ) Somehow, I think this discourse has gone astray. I don't think the discussion started out as a matter of "we" versus "them," but rather the irrational placement of the proposed award. For 27 years I defended this country. During that time I earned two Bronze Stars and an Air Medal. What really bothers me regarding the placement of the proposed award are the number of combatants that lay in hallowed ground for giving their lives for their country. These are the real heroes. I think of how the families of these men, and those men wounded in action and survived, feel knowing the award they were rendered in recognition for this sacrifice would be downgraded by an award that would have no relavence to valor. I, for one, will do everything in my power to put things in perspective, not to dene-grate the duties of the drone pilots, but rather to safeguard the intended purpose of the Bronze Star, Air Medal, and more importantly, the Purple Heart! Jack Angolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted March 10, 2013 Share #268 Posted March 10, 2013 Most can face danger from behind a computer, not everyone will run towards the sounds of the guns on the ground That being said, I'm really at the point of not giving a crap about the entire awards system. It's been falling apart rather steadily for years. Just another political arena these days. Peralta's case is a prime example, and I know of one more, lesser award case which would absolutely disgust you all if you knew. It's honestly the single event that made me not care about the awards process in the slightest anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted March 10, 2013 Share #269 Posted March 10, 2013 That being said, I'm really at the point of not giving a crap about the entire awards system. It's been falling apart rather steadily for years. Just another political arena these days. Peralta's case is a prime example, and I know of one more, lesser award case which would absolutely disgust you all if you knew. It's honestly the single event that made me not care about the awards process in the slightest anymore Amen to that, double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 12, 2013 Share #270 Posted March 12, 2013 http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/12/politics/drone-medal-review/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hink441 Posted March 13, 2013 Share #271 Posted March 13, 2013 Thank goodness! I really never understood Leon Panetta's precedence placement of this award. Definetly needs to be reviewed. According to the video, the DOD spokesman says "production of the medal has stopped" while the situation is under review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted March 13, 2013 Share #272 Posted March 13, 2013 According to the video, the DOD spokesman says "production of the medal has stopped" while the situation is under review. I noticed that too. Why would they do that if they are only reviewing the order of precedence? Could it be that someone is reconsidering the whole idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted March 13, 2013 Share #273 Posted March 13, 2013 Speaking of precedence, I wonder how this whole nonsense rates with all the DoD civilians facing furloughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted March 13, 2013 Share #274 Posted March 13, 2013 The Distinguished Service Medals rank before the Silver Star. The DSMs are most often awarded to high ranking officers far from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12A54 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share #275 Posted March 13, 2013 The Distinguished Service Medals rank before the Silver Star. The DSMs are most often awarded to high ranking officers far from the front. And the Legion of Merit is just under the Silver Star but above the DFC, Soldiers Medal, Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Why is that not appropriate for a Drone operator? Or an MSM or Commendation Medal depending on the level of contribution? I just don't get why they need a new/specific medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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