dlp797 Posted July 25, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 25, 2012 :think: Things that make ya wanna go HMMMMMM?! I have been researching my father' participation in WW II and have read several books on the subject of airborne paratrooper units but I have not come across any reference to the question of wether or not glider qualified troops that were part of an invasion can wear a star for each invasion landing they made. I'm assuming that they can wear the invasion arrowhead on the ETO or other campaign ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted July 25, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 25, 2012 BTT I don't believe stars were ever added to glider wings. I suspect you are correct about the arrowhead though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted July 25, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 25, 2012 Heres a set I own http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...00&hl=325th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted July 25, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2012 My mistake.......I thought you were referring to glider PILOTS. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted July 25, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 25, 2012 Did individual soldiers put stars and arrowheads on their wings/ YES. Was this covered by regs? NO (And neither were Paratroopers' stars, until post-Grenada, 1983. when Sec Army John Marsh was aghast that it was not covered in regs)!) Officially, the jump or landing only rated an arrowhead if/when the unit got CREDIT for an assault (as displayed on the campaign streamer on the flag), and not all landings got such credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk3370 Posted July 26, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 26, 2012 :think: Things that make ya wanna go HMMMMMM?! I have been researching my father' participation in WW II and have read several books on the subject of airborne paratrooper units but I have not come across any reference to the question of wether or not glider qualified troops that were part of an invasion can wear a star for each invasion landing they made. I'm assuming that they can wear the invasion arrowhead on the ETO or other campaign ribbon. This set of wings were given to me by my 1SG when I commanded the HQ Co, Institute for Military Assistance (IMA) at Ft. Bragg in 1978. The belonged to his father who was with the 82nd during WW2. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted July 26, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 26, 2012 If I remember correctly, glider wings themselves were not originally awarded until the first combat landing was made -- therefore, glider wings with a star should mean 2 combat landings, etc. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted July 26, 2012 Share #8 Posted July 26, 2012 It was a Qualification Badge, it was awarded naturally to the men in the Airborne Divisions overseas for the first time when they went in on D-Day. As this badge came out in March 1944, it would have been awarded to men as a Qualification Badge in the states undergoing Glider training after that date. Multiple assault stars of more than two if seen I,m imagining would be on those of the men of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, the Glider Artillery Battalions to include the bulk of the Engineer Battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division, added later on in 1945 if they made the ealier Sicily and Salerno assaults . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted July 26, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 26, 2012 It was a Qualification Badge, it was awarded naturally to the men in the Airborne Divisions overseas for the first time when they went in on D-Day. As this badge came out in March 1944, it would have been awarded to men as a Qualification Badge in the states undergoing Glider training after that date. Multiple assault stars of more than two if seen I,m imagining would be on those of the men of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, the Glider Artillery Battalions to include the bulk of the Engineer Battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division, added later on in 1945 if they made the ealier Sicily and Salerno assaults . Patches, Gil is correct in his assertion that the original intent of the glider badge was for it to be awarded upon the arrival into combat via glider. It was not until AFTER Normandy that the decision was for the glider badge to be awarded as a qualification badge. The reasoning originally was that the soldier only had to ride the glider down to earth and that was not perceived to require any special skill or ability. As the requirements for glider troopers increased to include loading and lashing, and balancing the cargo of a glider was it decided that the glider badge could be aptly awarded as a qualification badge. The next point is that the 325th GIR did not see the insides of gliders for an airborne assault until the Normandy operation. They came ashore in Sicily and on the Italian mainland by landing craft. I would regard any glider badge with three stars with a great amount of suspician. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted July 27, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 27, 2012 Right, Gil, Alan, it was originaly intented as a assault badge, however I would say that while it can be first and formost be reguarded as a assualt badge when one see it but it can not be reguarded as exclusivly an assault badge by collectors or students of U.S. Army insignia and general history, you know as well as I do that it will automatically be assumed that one on a end of war or post war uniform that lacks any patches for the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions, or at the very least has the 11th or 13th Airborne Divisions or XVIII Airborne Corps even the 1st Allied Airborne Army on them will be one added to the uniform and not original to it, if they see no 82nd or 101st the assumption that it's phony add on will be there, one could be on it because the man under took glider training stateside or as an indivdual stateside and was not in an airborne unit, but having said that you will be more apt to find a badge for an assault glider landing on non Airborne men overseas like the units from Operation Dragoon, or out in Burma and non Airborne types like correspondants etc. I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno, I use to have Gerard Devlin's GLIDER book so I can't look up the actual units that may have went in by Glider, does anyone know the units if there were any ? Husky is listed as one of the Operations that Gliders took part in, perhaps it was only the British from the 1st Airborne Division's 1st Air Landing Brigade ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted July 27, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 27, 2012 Right, Gil, Alan, it was originaly intented as a assault badge, however I would say that while it can be first and formost be reguarded as a assualt badge when one see it but it can not be reguarded as exclusivly an assault badge by collectors or students of U.S. Army insignia and general history, you know as well as I do that it will automatically be assumed that one on a end of war or post war uniform that lacks any patches for the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions, or at the very least has the 11th or 13th Airborne Divisions or XVIII Airborne Corps even the 1st Allied Airborne Army on them will be one added to the uniform and not original to it, if they see no 82nd or 101st the assumption that it's phony add on will be there, one could be on it because the man under took glider training stateside or as an indivdual stateside and was not in an airborne unit, but having said that you will be more apt to find a badge for an assault glider landing on non Airborne men overseas like the units from Operation Dragoon, or out in Burma and non Airborne types like correspondants etc. I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno, I use to have Gerard Devlin's GLIDER book so I can't look up the actual units that may have went in by Glider, does anyone know the units if there were any ? Husky is listed as one of the Operations that Gliders took part in, perhaps it was only the British from the 1st Airborne Division's 1st Air Landing Brigade ? Patches, Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available. As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted July 27, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 27, 2012 Patches,Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available. As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider. Allan Correct on WENT IN allan thats what I meant no glider landings by the All American in those two operations, check on all the rest. If you can recall seeing a topic several months ago on a group of photos, I think it was in the uniforms forum ? it showed a Chemical Mortar guy from the Chemical mortar unit that went in by Glider in Southern France, the photos were believed taken after VE day, in this case one of them maybre one other had the Airborne tab over some patch cant really remember which one, it was explained that the unit maybe had the pervue to wear the tabs, any way that was one reason for the tabs months after the Invasion of Southern France, it went in by Glider and thus was intitled to wear the Glider badge at the least, I tried to find this older topic but havn,t found it as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted July 27, 2012 Share #13 Posted July 27, 2012 Found that older topic on Airborne tabs and Glider Badges, it was in the Shoulder Sleeve Forum. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...Chemical+Mortar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52m37 Posted August 3, 2012 Share #14 Posted August 3, 2012 There is a great deal of good information in this thread. However some clarification based on official documents may help. The Glider badge was authorized in Circular 220 dated 02 June 1944, prior to D-Day, it was retroactive to 01 April 1943. The requirements set forth included attending a glider school/course, being a member of or attached to a glider unit or airborne unit and making 2 tactical OR SIMULATED tactical landings. I will post the document below but if you can not read it send me a PM and I will forward it to you. Also, as noted above combat stars are not authorized for wear on the glider badge, but this was ignored by many and good examples have been posted. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52m37 Posted August 3, 2012 Share #15 Posted August 3, 2012 Additional information on the glider badge during the post was period is found in AR 600-70 dated 06 Aug 1946. In this regulation the requirement included completion of the glider school/course OR participation in a single combat landing, behind enemy lines with a specific tactical mission. See below, again if you can not read it send me a note and I will forward. It seems possible then that an individual could be awarded the glider badge and have no combat experience, at least post Aug 46. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted August 4, 2012 Share #16 Posted August 4, 2012 Very interest thread guys... lots of information to chew on! Thanks for posting! Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navynambu Posted August 6, 2012 Share #17 Posted August 6, 2012 Great thread, thanks to all for posting. I was wondering when the Glider badge was withdrawn from useage by official document or Order; specifically I am intereted in the cutoff date when it would no longer be awarded. Thanks, Rollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52m37 Posted August 12, 2012 Share #18 Posted August 12, 2012 I believe it was in 1949 when the Army did away with glider units, although the badge was still worn by those who were awarded it. I am looking for some official documentation on the date but have not been able to locate anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted August 12, 2012 Share #19 Posted August 12, 2012 Can Glider Wings FLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted August 12, 2012 Share #20 Posted August 12, 2012 Not under their own power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted June 26, 2013 Share #21 Posted June 26, 2013 If anyone is still interested, here's a period photo of my grandfather with his two stars on it. And here they are present day reapplied. He didn't keep his Ike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted June 26, 2013 Share #22 Posted June 26, 2013 I purchased a subdued metal glider badge at the Cameron Station, VA PX in the late 1970's. I suppose the Army or the maker (N.S. Meyer) thought there might still be soldiers in fatigues who could still wear it. That is the same place I bought subdued overseas cap "glider" patches, both EM and officers types. No one has been able to provide me a reasonable explanation for these so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mshaw Posted June 26, 2013 Share #23 Posted June 26, 2013 Thanks for clarifying that, Allan. I have an Ike jacket that I have wondered about for years that belonged to a vet of the 2nd Chemical Mortar Bn. and it has a glider badge and I have a copy of his discharge and it states he was awarded the badge. He did make a glider landing in Southern France but never got in a glider again (he was happy about that by the way). This is a very interesting thread! Patches,Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available.As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider.Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mshaw Posted June 26, 2013 Share #24 Posted June 26, 2013 What a great picture and uniform! Thank you for posting it. I've always thought these glider riders had one of the most dangerous jobs in the Army, next to Ball Turret Gunners of course. If anyone is still interested, here's a period photo of my grandfather with his two stars on it.And here they are present day reapplied. He didn't keep his Ike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted June 26, 2013 Share #25 Posted June 26, 2013 Thank you! It makes me proud to hear you say that. I learned all of this about my grandpa shortly after he passed a few years ago. A very long, sad, yet interesting turn of events brought my interest to my family's involvement in WWII. I read a good book written by a 325th veteran. Some of the things they did, I haven't seen such intense things in movies. Yet I remember him as the quiet man who often fell asleep watching the news when he visited. It's awful to know that I missed out on all of the stories from North Africa to Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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