Jump to content
dlp797

Can Glider Wings have Stars?

Recommended Posts

:think: Things that make ya wanna go HMMMMMM?! I have been researching my father' participation in WW II and have read several books on the subject of airborne paratrooper units but I have not come across any reference to the question of wether or not glider qualified troops that were part of an invasion can wear a star for each invasion landing they made. I'm assuming that they can wear the invasion arrowhead on the ETO or other campaign ribbon.


Thx and God Speed!

Sgt (ret) Dan Perry, Hvy SP FA, Ordnance/Turret Mech 45D-2, M110A2 8' 203 mm Cold Steel On Target!

Son of a 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team Paratrooper!

In memorial of my Father, Cpl Floyd R. Perry, served Sept 42-Sept 45, MP, Infantryman, Hvy Mortar Crewman, Paratrooper!

Purple Heart w/1 oak leaf cluster; Bronze Star with/V device; EAME w/1 Silver Star, 1 Bronze Star, 2 Parachute Invasion Arrowheads; Good Conduct; Occupation Germany Medal; American Campaign Medal; WW II Victory Medal; Combat Infantrman Badge earned in Southern France; Paratrooper Wings w/ 2 Bronze Stars; Presidential Distinguished Unit Citation w/1 oak leaf Cluster, French Croix De Guerre w/Silver Gilt Star; Belgian Croix De Guerre; Belgian Fouragere; www.517prct.org www.wwiiadt.org

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did individual soldiers put stars and arrowheads on their wings/ YES.

 

Was this covered by regs? NO (And neither were Paratroopers' stars, until post-Grenada, 1983. when Sec Army John Marsh

was aghast that it was not covered in regs)!)

 

Officially, the jump or landing only rated an arrowhead if/when the unit got CREDIT for an assault (as displayed on the

campaign streamer on the flag), and not all landings got such credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:think: Things that make ya wanna go HMMMMMM?! I have been researching my father' participation in WW II and have read several books on the subject of airborne paratrooper units but I have not come across any reference to the question of wether or not glider qualified troops that were part of an invasion can wear a star for each invasion landing they made. I'm assuming that they can wear the invasion arrowhead on the ETO or other campaign ribbon.

 

 

This set of wings were given to me by my 1SG when I commanded the HQ Co, Institute for Military Assistance (IMA) at Ft. Bragg in 1978. The belonged to his father who was with the 82nd during WW2.

 

Terry

post-6022-1343306088.jpg

post-6022-1343306109.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly, glider wings themselves were not originally awarded until the first combat landing was made -- therefore, glider wings with a star should mean 2 combat landings, etc.

 

G



donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a Qualification Badge, it was awarded naturally to the men in the Airborne Divisions overseas for the first time when they went in on D-Day. As this badge came out in March 1944, it would have been awarded to men as a Qualification Badge in the states undergoing Glider training after that date. Multiple assault stars of more than two if seen I,m imagining would be on those of the men of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, the Glider Artillery Battalions to include the bulk of the Engineer Battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division, added later on in 1945 if they made the ealier Sicily and Salerno assaults .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was a Qualification Badge, it was awarded naturally to the men in the Airborne Divisions overseas for the first time when they went in on D-Day. As this badge came out in March 1944, it would have been awarded to men as a Qualification Badge in the states undergoing Glider training after that date. Multiple assault stars of more than two if seen I,m imagining would be on those of the men of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, the Glider Artillery Battalions to include the bulk of the Engineer Battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division, added later on in 1945 if they made the ealier Sicily and Salerno assaults .

 

Patches,

Gil is correct in his assertion that the original intent of the glider badge was for it to be awarded upon the arrival into combat via glider. It was not until AFTER Normandy that the decision was for the glider badge to be awarded as a qualification badge. The reasoning originally was that the soldier only had to ride the glider down to earth and that was not perceived to require any special skill or ability. As the requirements for glider troopers increased to include loading and lashing, and balancing the cargo of a glider was it decided that the glider badge could be aptly awarded as a qualification badge.

 

The next point is that the 325th GIR did not see the insides of gliders for an airborne assault until the Normandy operation. They came ashore in Sicily and on the Italian mainland by landing craft. I would regard any glider badge with three stars with a great amount of suspician.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

donation2007.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, Gil, Alan, it was originaly intented as a assault badge, however I would say that while it can be first and formost be reguarded as a assualt badge when one see it but it can not be reguarded as exclusivly an assault badge by collectors or students of U.S. Army insignia and general history, you know as well as I do that it will automatically be assumed that one on a end of war or post war uniform that lacks any patches for the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions, or at the very least has the 11th or 13th Airborne Divisions or XVIII Airborne Corps even the 1st Allied Airborne Army on them will be one added to the uniform and not original to it, if they see no 82nd or 101st the assumption that it's phony add on will be there, one could be on it because the man under took glider training stateside or as an indivdual stateside and was not in an airborne unit, but having said that you will be more apt to find a badge for an assault glider landing on non Airborne men overseas like the units from Operation Dragoon, or out in Burma and non Airborne types like correspondants etc.

 

I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno, I use to have Gerard Devlin's GLIDER book so I can't look up the actual units that may have went in by Glider, does anyone know the units if there were any ? Husky is listed as one of the Operations that Gliders took part in, perhaps it was only the British from the 1st Airborne Division's 1st Air Landing Brigade ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right, Gil, Alan, it was originaly intented as a assault badge, however I would say that while it can be first and formost be reguarded as a assualt badge when one see it but it can not be reguarded as exclusivly an assault badge by collectors or students of U.S. Army insignia and general history, you know as well as I do that it will automatically be assumed that one on a end of war or post war uniform that lacks any patches for the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions, or at the very least has the 11th or 13th Airborne Divisions or XVIII Airborne Corps even the 1st Allied Airborne Army on them will be one added to the uniform and not original to it, if they see no 82nd or 101st the assumption that it's phony add on will be there, one could be on it because the man under took glider training stateside or as an indivdual stateside and was not in an airborne unit, but having said that you will be more apt to find a badge for an assault glider landing on non Airborne men overseas like the units from Operation Dragoon, or out in Burma and non Airborne types like correspondants etc.

 

I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno, I use to have Gerard Devlin's GLIDER book so I can't look up the actual units that may have went in by Glider, does anyone know the units if there were any ? Husky is listed as one of the Operations that Gliders took part in, perhaps it was only the British from the 1st Airborne Division's 1st Air Landing Brigade ?

 

Patches,

Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available.

 

As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

donation2007.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patches,

Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available.

 

As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider.

 

Allan

 

 

Correct on WENT IN allan thats what I meant no glider landings by the All American in those two operations, check on all the rest. If you can recall seeing a topic several months ago on a group of photos, I think it was in the uniforms forum ? it showed a Chemical Mortar guy from the Chemical mortar unit that went in by Glider in Southern France, the photos were believed taken after VE day, in this case one of them maybre one other had the Airborne tab over some patch cant really remember which one, it was explained that the unit maybe had the pervue to wear the tabs, any way that was one reason for the tabs months after the Invasion of Southern France, it went in by Glider and thus was intitled to wear the Glider badge at the least, I tried to find this older topic but havn,t found it as of yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a great deal of good information in this thread. However some clarification based on official documents may help.

The Glider badge was authorized in Circular 220 dated 02 June 1944, prior to D-Day, it was retroactive to 01 April 1943.

The requirements set forth included attending a glider school/course, being a member of or attached to a glider unit or airborne unit and making 2 tactical OR SIMULATED tactical landings.

 

I will post the document below but if you can not read it send me a PM and I will forward it to you.

 

Also, as noted above combat stars are not authorized for wear on the glider badge, but this was ignored by many and good examples have been posted.

Hal

post-54464-1343968819.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Additional information on the glider badge during the post was period is found in AR 600-70 dated 06 Aug 1946. In this regulation the requirement included completion of the glider school/course OR participation in a single combat landing, behind enemy lines with a specific tactical mission. See below, again if you can not read it send me a note and I will forward.

 

It seems possible then that an individual could be awarded the glider badge and have no combat experience, at least post Aug 46.

Hal

post-54464-1343969329.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interest thread guys... lots of information to chew on! Thanks for posting!

 

Cheers

John


Always looking for Wings & Named Air Medals!

Motto: To Collect, Preserve, and Remember!

 

 

 

 

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great thread, thanks to all for posting. I was wondering when the Glider badge was withdrawn from useage by official document or Order; specifically I am intereted in the cutoff date when it would no longer be awarded. Thanks, Rollie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it was in 1949 when the Army did away with glider units, although the badge was still worn by those who were awarded it. I am looking for some official documentation on the date but have not been able to locate anything yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone is still interested, here's a period photo of my grandfather with his two stars on it.

Posted Image

And here they are present day reapplied. He didn't keep his Ike.

Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I purchased a subdued metal glider badge at the Cameron Station, VA PX in the late 1970's. I suppose the Army or the maker (N.S. Meyer) thought there might still be soldiers in fatigues who could still wear it. That is the same place I bought subdued overseas cap "glider" patches, both EM and officers types. No one has been able to provide me a reasonable explanation for these so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for clarifying that, Allan. I have an Ike jacket that I have wondered about for years that belonged to a vet of the 2nd Chemical Mortar Bn. and it has a glider badge and I have a copy of his discharge and it states he was awarded the badge. He did make a glider landing in Southern France but never got in a glider again (he was happy about that by the way). This is a very interesting thread!

Patches,
Lots of stuff to respond to here- For starters, as Gil stated earlier, the badge was originally awarded for completing a ride in a glider into combat. It was only after a glider course was established that the wing was awarded as a qualification badge. Gerald Devlin explains this in detail in "Silent Wings." US soldiers could attend the glider training course even after WWII also. As for soldiers entitled to wear the glider badge, there are quite a number of units that weren't necessarily airborne untis who had soldiers ride into battle on gliders- most of whom did so in Operation Dragoon. Some of these include the Anti-Tank platoon from the 442nd RCT and soldiers in Chemical Mortar units going into Southern France. When naming units with glider troopers, don't forget the glider troopers of the 17th Airborne Division in Operation Varsity or soldiers in the 11th Airborne Division in the PTO, many of whom trained as both paratroopers and glider troopers! General Swing wanted his troopers to be able to go into combat by whatever transport mode might be available.

As for glider use in Italy, you'll have to look to the British army for that as Operation Ladbroke (the glider assault on Sicily) was their's. It should be noted that 27 American glider pilots participated in Ladbroke as co-pilots. I'd also like to amend your statement "I see that apparently no units of the 82nd Airborne Division went in at Sicly or Salerno... as I assume you are meaning via glider, as the 82nd played a large role in the Sicilian and Itialian campaigns with soldiers arriving on the battlefield via parachute and landing craft from the sea. They just didn't come in via glider.

Allan


Private Elisha Leake, Company G, 73rd Ohio Volunteer Infantry, 11th Army Corps, KIA, Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863 Great Great Uncle

 

Sgt. Isaac Willis, Company G, 73rd Ohio Volunteer Infantry, 11th Army Corps, KIA, Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863 Great Great Uncle

 

You Are Not Forgotten

 

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a great picture and uniform! Thank you for posting it. I've always thought these glider riders had one of the most dangerous jobs in the Army, next to Ball Turret Gunners of course.

If anyone is still interested, here's a period photo of my grandfather with his two stars on it.
atyse6uv.jpg
And here they are present day reapplied. He didn't keep his Ike.
u2ety3eg.jpg


Private Elisha Leake, Company G, 73rd Ohio Volunteer Infantry, 11th Army Corps, KIA, Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863 Great Great Uncle

 

Sgt. Isaac Willis, Company G, 73rd Ohio Volunteer Infantry, 11th Army Corps, KIA, Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863 Great Great Uncle

 

You Are Not Forgotten

 

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you! It makes me proud to hear you say that.

I learned all of this about my grandpa shortly after he passed a few years ago.

A very long, sad, yet interesting turn of events brought my interest to my family's involvement in WWII.

I read a good book written by a 325th veteran. Some of the things they did, I haven't seen such intense things in movies.

Yet I remember him as the quiet man who often fell asleep watching the news when he visited. It's awful to know that I missed out on all of the stories from North Africa to Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.