Question Regarding DCU Jacket

[Retired]

I picked up this DCU jacket at the ASMIC show in Denver last Fall. I got it from a retired SF officer who had a large amount of material for sale. I didn't have an SF DCU jacket. I thought that it was unusual not to have jump wings and a CBI sewn on the jacket. When I asked the seller about the lack of the two insignia, he said that when a senior grade NCO didn't have a Senior or Master wing, they generally didn't put any on. What do the experts here think of that explanation?

[CNY Militaria]

I suppose its possible, I see a lot of active officers/NCO's wearing utility uniforms without all of their badges present for one reason or another.

[Retired]

I picked up this DCU jacket at the ASMIC show in Denver last Fall. I got it from a retired SF officer who had a large amount of material for sale. I didn't have an SF DCU jacket. I thought that it was unusual not to have jump wings and a CBI sewn on the jacket. When I asked the seller about the lack of the two insignia, he said that when a senior grade NCO didn't have a Senior or Master wing, they generally didn't put any on. What do the experts here think of that explanation?

 

Here is a closeup of the left side of the jacket. If you look closely, you can see pinholes in the chest area. For display purposes, I attached a subdued brown metal master jump wing and CBI badge that I had gotten several years ago from a retired SF officer.

[Retired]

Here is a closeup of the left side of the jacket. If you look closely, you can see pinholes in the chest area. For display purposes, I attached a subdued brown metal master jump wing and CBI badge that I had gotten several years ago from a retired SF officer.

 

Here is the right side.

[Bob Hudson]

Last year I picked up several woodland camo shirts and a couple of M-65 jackets that elonged to an Army Sgt. who was Special Forces / Airborne. Every piece had slightly different patches and insignia. A couple of the shirts had everything sewn on but others were missing various things:

 

[Allan H.]

Dallas,

When I was in Saudi Arabia and later in Kuwait during Ops Desert Shield/ Storm, I worked with a lot of US Special Forces soldiers. Not a single one of them wore anything other than crossed arrows on their DCU's (officers only- in fact, the warrant officers wore Captains' bars and crossed arrows because Saudi and Egyptian Warrants were not treated anything like officers).

Of course, at that time everything was chocolate chip and your example is coffee stain, so I would think that perhaps the SF changed the way the operated after the war was over and authorized wear of the SSI and Special Forces tabs.

I do find it odd that there are no jump wings or CIB, so I am afraid I can't make you feel any easier about your purchase.

Allan

[MattD]

I picked up this DCU jacket at the ASMIC show in Denver last Fall. I got it from a retired SF officer who had a large amount of material for sale. I didn't have an SF DCU jacket. I thought that it was unusual not to have jump wings and a CBI sewn on the jacket. When I asked the seller about the lack of the two insignia, he said that when a senior grade NCO didn't have a Senior or Master wing, they generally didn't put any on. What do the experts here think of that explanation?

 

I would have no problem with that. You cannot be Special Forces Qualified without being Airborne qualified. I would guess pin on badges too

 

I know lots of guys who didn't wear any badges, by regulations Name tape, US Army Tape and unit SSI and rank is all that is required

 

 

My $.02.....Matt

[Andrei]

Last year I picked up several woodland camo shirts and a couple of M-65 jackets that elonged to an Army Sgt. who was Special Forces / Airborne. Every piece had slightly different patches and insignia. A couple of the shirts had everything sewn on but others were missing various things:

 

Hi !

How could you explain that a HALO qualified SF NCO is in the meantine only a novice parachutist ? I have seen BDUs and DCUs of senior SF NCOs with CIB and combat tour patch but with novice para wings. No doubt they were genuine because they were at thrift stores for just a couple of bucks.

Andrei

[MattD]

Hi !

How could you explain that a HALO qualified SF NCO is in the meantine only a novice parachutist ? I have seen BDUs and DCUs of senior SF NCOs with CIB and combat tour patch but with novice para wings. No doubt they were genuine because they were at thrift stores for just a couple of bucks.

Andrei

 

 

Andrei

 

Some guys don't care about badges-who are they trying to impress?

 

Really most don't give a crap. Especially now everyone in SF has a CIB/CMB -combat patch-even most new guys.

 

Plus, I would guess he was waiting/working to get his Master Jumpwings and didn't want to waste the time/money buying/sewing senior jump wings on

[VMI88]

I thought that it was unusual not to have jump wings and a CBI sewn on the jacket. When I asked the seller about the lack of the two insignia, he said that when a senior grade NCO didn't have a Senior or Master wing, they generally didn't put any on. What do the experts here think of that explanation?

Lots of uniforms worn in theater don't have full insignia. DCU's are organizational clothing, and the Army only pays for the basic insignia to be sewn on: nametapes, US Army tapes, unit patch, and US flag. You can have the extra stuff sewn on at your own expense, but why do it? Everyone you work with knows who you are and what you've done.

 

I've also noticed that SF guys rarely wear pin-on jump wings with their ACU's, even in garrison. (Pin-on wings are the only type authorized on ACU's.) It's just part of the SF culture.

 

Bill

[Laury Allison]

Hi !

How could you explain that a HALO qualified SF NCO is in the meantine only a novice parachutist ? I have seen BDUs and DCUs of senior SF NCOs with CIB and combat tour patch but with novice para wings. No doubt they were genuine because they were at thrift stores for just a couple of bucks.

Andrei

 

Unless a person has attended an approved Jumpmaster Course or served as a jumpmaster in certain situations (I'm thinking a combat jump?), they aren't authorized Senior or Master wings, no matter how many jumps they have. I knew a SFC once that had over 600 jumps, but never wanted the responsibility of being a Jumpmaster, so still rated only basic wings.

 

A lot of SF guys I've known didn't wear (or care about) badges. One captain I used to work with never wore his jump wings or his SF tab on his Class "B" uniform. He only had them on his BDUs because they made him sew them on. His rationale was he had the SF Tab and he had to have jump wings before he could earn the SF tab.

 

We had a major as well who never wore any of his badges. People were always asking him why he wore bloused jump boots. And unless you noticed the jump boots or saw him outdoors with his beret, you would have never known.

 

I've seen these guys pass another SF trooper on more than one occasion and immediately recognize each other from a brief meeting even years earlier. It is a very small community!

 

I've noticed a lot of troops don't bother with the pin-on badges with the ACU as well. That stuff can be a pain to center and pin-on straight...especially with multiple badges.

 

Laury

[Germanymp]

Hi !

How could you explain that a HALO qualified SF NCO is in the meantine only a novice parachutist ? I have seen BDUs and DCUs of senior SF NCOs with CIB and combat tour patch but with novice para wings. No doubt they were genuine because they were at thrift stores for just a couple of bucks.

Andrei

 

 

Andrei,

 

very simple, go to the GOLDEN KNIGHTS website and check out ALL of the guys biography! There are a ton of Airborne troopers (Golden Knights) who only wear basic jump wings, but then have more then 2000 HALO jumps (senior halo wings).

This is not too uncommon amongst SF guys. I've seen this myself in person in Stuttgart/Boeblingen, Germany with 1/10 SF.

[MattD]

Andrei,

 

very simple, go to the GOLDEN KNIGHTS website and check out ALL of the guys biography! There are a ton of Airborne troopers (Golden Knights) who only wear basic jump wings, but then have more then 2000 HALO jumps (senior halo wings).

This is not too uncommon amongst SF guys. I've seen this myself in person in Stuttgart/Boeblingen, Germany with 1/10 SF.

 

 

Not a fair comparison. The Golden Knights are Sport Parachutists. They are not all MFF (Military Free Fall)/HALO qualified. There is a difference.

 

You need Jumpmaster school (HALO/Static), as well as enough jumps, jumpmasters and safties to get Senior/Master wings.

 

Just because someone has 2000 jumps-doesn't earn them any higher level badge.

 

I knew a Master Sgt, that took it as a mark of pride/resistance to not attend the JM course-they finally made him attend or no SGM !! Or that was his story

[Andrei]

OK, I got it. Thanks guys for your answers !