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Skiph,

I can't say that I have run much with either of my holsters, but I am confident they are held firmly and won't jar loose. They seem solid and well made. I got mine at the Blackhawk store on Camp Atterbury, IN while trainig for deployment. Varangian, I'm not familiar with the numbers or the Serpa brand you mention.

Hawkdriver, I have seen some brownish color, is that what you are referring to?

MSG BKW

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Skiph,

I can't say that I have run much with either of my holsters, but I am confident they are held firmly and won't jar loose. They seem solid and well made. I got mine at the Blackhawk store on Camp Atterbury, IN while trainig for deployment. Varangian, I'm not familiar with the numbers or the Serpa brand you mention.

Hawkdriver, I have seen some brownish color, is that what you are referring to?

MSG BKW

 

I have carried one through each tour and have never had a single problem. They can be tilted as necessary and they even have an attachment so you can rotate them whenever you want. Here is a picture of me hoisting a flag on 9/11 2010.

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You can see how I have mine tilted on the hip. I found that this angle allowed me to put my survival vest on and when I sat in the aircraft seat, the muzzle would fit into the crook of the seat. Saved me from having to move my pistol from my hip to my vest and back. Never had a lock problem, never had an extraction problem, and will buy another one on my next deployment. I swear by them.

BK, there is a coyote brown one, didn't know if they came out with the MC version yet.


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I'm storing a Blackhawk model for my son. It did a tour in Iraq with him and a tour in Afghanistan with my other son. They never had a problem with it. Its probably headed back to Afghanistan.

 

Still need to clean the desert out of it

 

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When I look at the holsters, I always try to figure out if it will hang in there during a parachute jump. Lots of stuff flies off on a door exit. SKIP

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I carried the M9 for fourteen years as an MP... and I'm old enough to remember the change over from the M1911... I remembered being shocked the first time "de-cocking" the weapon and the hammer falling. I stated then that was never a good idea. Fourteen years later, two weeks before my retirement, my worst fears came to fruition while I was loading my weapon in preparation to beginning my duty shift at Fort Hood. I took the weapon from the armorer, checked the barrel was to the rear and clear, and that the decocking lever was in the safe position. I placed the muzzle in the clearing barrel, put a magazine in the weapon, and let the slide go forward. When I pulled the pistol out of the clearing barrel and tilted it down to place it in my holster, the weapon fired with the de-cocking lever on "safe" and my trigger finger extended along the side of the slide. The weapon was immediately quarantined and sent to three shop maintenance where it was found thre were several pieces broken in the "safety" mechanism... a malfunction that would not have been within the operator's level nor the organizational level of maintenance to find. If indeed the Military goes back to a .45 cal firearm, I hope its one of a better design than the baretta with a more positive method of safety.

 

As far as the holsters, I've used the issue Bianchi M-12 with and without the leg extender, with the flap, and without the flap with the thumb break, The blackhawk leg holsters (canvas and velcro), and the type of ABS holster shown in the photos with the positive retention release button. I have also used police type positive retention holsters while performing road duty. I can honestly say that I never had any trouble using the holsters that have been issued to me short of the M1916 leather holster originally meant for the M1911. The M9 was always a tight fit in the M1916 holster, and the troops were happy to get rid of them when the M12 holster finally made it into the system. The one thing I CAN say about the plastic holsters is to make sure you get one that has the positive retention button... That device holds the pistol securely in the holster until you push the button to release it.

 

Hope that provides a bit of insight...

 

Wayne

Freedom isnt free... it must be paid for. Too often it is paid for by the blood of patriots. For those who have paid their share, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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the weapon fired with the de-cocking lever on "safe" and my trigger finger extended along the side of the slide. The weapon was immediately quarantined and sent to three shop maintenance where it was found thre were several pieces broken in the "safety" mechanism... a malfunction that would not have been within the operator's level nor the organizational level of maintenance to find.

Wayne

 

I would like to know more about what happened. When the safety / decocking lever is initiated, the segmented firing pin is rotated to break the link so that the hammer can fall and not fire. So, when it fired, there had to be something VERY wrong inside the weapon. That is the only occurrence that I have ever heard of that happening. I have seen demonstrations where a loaded weapon is mercilessly beaten on the back of the slide and hammer with the safety engaged without the weapon firing. Did they ever give you an answer as to what happened?


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Brian I notice a lot of you guys wear your holsters on your chest like in your pic. My question is how does that work when you have to hit the deck and lay on best down? That seems like it would be a problem doing that maybe not but I want to ask. I would think a hip or dop leg holster mount would work better if you where in a prone position. But I saw a lot of guys carring like you with the chest rig and it does give you quick access to the pistol. Is the job you do something that keeps you out of the prone position where it's not a issue?

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I would like to know more about what happened. When the safety / decocking lever is initiated, the segmented firing pin is rotated to break the link so that the hammer can fall and not fire. So, when it fired, there had to be something VERY wrong inside the weapon. That is the only occurrence that I have ever heard of that happening. I have seen demonstrations where a loaded weapon is mercilessly beaten on the back of the slide and hammer with the safety engaged without the weapon firing. Did they ever give you an answer as to what happened?

 

Initially of course, the chain of command treated this as a negligent discharge, regardless of the fact that the station commander was right there when it happened. The station commander took the weapon from me verified it was still on safe and unloaded it and turned it in to the armorer with orders to quarantine the weapon and turn it in to three shop maintenance for a thorough investigation as to why it misfired. I think the weapon actually wound up at depot level but the report that came back down through the chain of command was that it was a weapon malfunction, not operator caused, that a part of the mechanism was broken. That's all that got back to me... and my immediate chain of command removed the initial counselling statement for negligent discharge from my record as a result. Just before I retired I DID hear that the incident caused the higher maintenance people to review the maintenance records on the pistol ( and all weapons in my unit) which revealed that while the required weekly and monthly operator maintenance checks were being conducted, no higher organizational or above checks had been conducted since well before I got to that unit.

 

The only thing that I can think of is that somehow the thumb lever failed to rotate the firing pin out of battery when the safety lever was placed in the safe position. I was a unit armorer for over two years, and never saw anything like that myself, but then, that was above my level of maintenance to even look at. The report that came back through the chain of command at the MP Station stated specifically that the problem was not one that operator maintenance could have detected nor fixed. Te weapon was a disaster waiting to happen the day it was initially assigned to me when I arrived at the unit.

 

Wayne

Freedom isnt free... it must be paid for. Too often it is paid for by the blood of patriots. For those who have paid their share, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Brian I notice a lot of you guys wear your holsters on your chest like in your pic. My question is how does that work when you have to hit the deck and lay on best down? That seems like it would be a problem doing that maybe not but I want to ask. I would think a hip or dop leg holster mount would work better if you where in a prone position. But I saw a lot of guys carring like you with the chest rig and it does give you quick access to the pistol. Is the job you do something that keeps you out of the prone position where it's not a issue?

 

In Iraq from 2003-2004, our gunners would carry the pistol like that on the Interceptor vests once we got them issued. It was easier to access them in the cupola (M114 Up-armored hummers). Normally, we carried them in leg holsters...

 

Wayne

Freedom isnt free... it must be paid for. Too often it is paid for by the blood of patriots. For those who have paid their share, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Wayne, glad to hear that you didn't shoot yourself and that the ND was removed. We had a M-240H fire and they tried pinning it on the crew chief. I investigated it and found that we were issued M-80 ball which is specifically restricted from the M-240 for being under powered and caused half cocked conditions. Even with that evidence, they still Article-15'd the guy.

 

Also, wearing a pistol on your thigh is asking for a broken femur in a lateral impact caused either by IED blasts or vehicle/aircraft crash.


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Okay, just a couple of pictures. The first one is at the bridge between Kuwait and Bubiyan Island just a couple of days after the cease fire for Desert Storm. I wore my M9 in the standard holster, but connected it between the strap and case for my gas mask, that I wore underneath my left arm, see second picture (a little out of focus, but given the crappy camera I had . . .). That allowed me to access the M9 while seated, as well as kept my gas mask out of the way while seated. The arrangement worked pretty well.

Last picture is my current Beretta 92FS pistol; it’s a little different than the full size one as it’s the compact version. It’s a law enforcement officer swap out; not sure what department it came. My understanding is that Beretta tried to interest the US Military in buying these and using them in non-combat security operations, but they weren’t successful.

 

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Brian I notice a lot of you guys wear your holsters on your chest like in your pic. My question is how does that work when you have to hit the deck and lay on best down? That seems like it would be a problem doing that maybe not but I want to ask. I would think a hip or dop leg holster mount would work better if you where in a prone position. But I saw a lot of guys carring like you with the chest rig and it does give you quick access to the pistol. Is the job you do something that keeps you out of the prone position where it's not a issue?

 

 

blitzkrieg, when we’re in the vest, with the plates and the rifle magazines in front, the pistol rides above the mags so doesn’t make my profile any higher. It works well for me and I hope I never have to find out one way or the other in a kinetic situation. Although I am 11B infantry MOS, I am not a “door kicker” with an infantry mission. I meet with various government officials and others to assist in the Agribusiness improvement of Afghanistan. I always move with a security team who take their job seriously, so I can concentrate on the people around me. When I first got the issue leg holster I really didn't like it. I think it was designed by Handgun Control. It is heavy, bulky, and awkward, other than that, it is just fine! Some people use them. I left mine in a duffel bag in the states.

mpguy, thanks for the interesting story, glad it turned out OK, more or less, I'm sure you just about had a heart attack when it happened! I would have. The German WW II P38 pistol has the hammer drop when you put it on safe also.

MSG BKW

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Brian I understand what your saying that you don't spend a lot of time in the prone position with your mos. but I see a lot of door kickers wearing them on the chest like you do. It's just something I have been thinking about after seeing so many guys carrying like that. The only down side I see to it is if you have to hit the deck fast and hard.

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If you have to hit the deck hard, you have a bunch of magazines around your belly that are going to cause more problems. Also, with the vest, it will help with impacts. No matter where you put the gun, you are going to have problems, thigh rigs have their own issues, so either take it in the ribs, or break your femur or at least bruise your thigh when you go down sideways or roll over on it.


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thigh rigs have their own issues, so either take it in the ribs, or break your femur or at least bruise your thigh when you go down sideways or roll over on it.

 

Neverheard of anyone breaking their leg on a thigh rig, but plenty of pilots have eaten whatever was on the front of their vests.

 

I like thigh rigs and have used them since the survival vest got too fat for a shoulder rig. Easily adjusted to clear the seat and out of the way. Pistol is accessible from the prone. Doesn't take up vest real estate (especially with a plate carrier), and it's out of the way of a slung rifle. It does have disadvantages, mainly due to improper siting and adjustment which takes a little bit of wearing to get dialed in.

 

I don't care for the Serpa, either. It's probably okay for light duty, but it has far too many weak points for my personal liking.

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Neverheard of anyone breaking their leg on a thigh rig, but plenty of pilots have eaten whatever was on the front of their vests.

 

One of the pilots shot down in Mogadishu right before Blackhawk down did it. There are other cases that I have seen at USAARL in past visits. It's one reason the ASEK is no longer required to be worn on the leg. Lateral impacts are usually the culprit.


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I guess it depends on a lot of factors to witch way you decide to carry. Just wanted to ask cause I have seen a lot of combat guys wearing there holsters on there chest. Myself I wear my pistol a 1911 in a hip holster the old style with the fold over flap. The front of my vest is already full with rifle mags and other gear I want fast acces to. I also like to keep a large fights knife mounted to my vest in the middle of the mag pouches. It just comes down to what you like in the end. And what's the best way to wear your gear so you can get it when ou need it. Something to think about is if you are in a fire fight chances are good you will end up in prone firing. If you are being advanced on and have to get o your pistol will you have to expose yourself to do it? If its on your hip you just lay your rifle down and grab your pistol

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I guess it depends on a lot of factors to witch way you decide to carry. Just wanted to ask cause I have seen a lot of combat guys wearing there holsters on there chest. Myself I wear my pistol a 1911 in a hip holster the old style with the fold over flap. The front of my vest is already full with rifle mags and other gear I want fast acces to. I also like to keep a large fights knife mounted to my vest in the middle of the mag pouches. It just comes down to what you like in the end. And what's the best way to wear your gear so you can get it when ou need it. Something to think about is if you are in a fire fight chances are good you will end up in prone firing. If you are being advanced on and have to get o your pistol will you have to expose yourself to do it? If its on your hip you just lay your rifle down and grab your pistol

 

blitzkrieg gsd,

 

I gather from your coment that you are not a "combat guy." So, when do you arm yourself to the teeth wearing all this stuff?

GB

 

 

 

 

 

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This conversation had me thinking that I had a couple of these Blackhawk holsters in my show stock, but didn't know where they were. Doing some repacking for the big gun show in KC this weekend, I found them. Here they are, one hip holster mount, the other is the Molle mount as shown on BK's IOTV.

 

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I suit up any time I have to go out past seeing distance of the house on my farm. I live on a large farm in central part of the state. We have a big problem with meth cooks and dope growers around here and you can forget about help from the police. These dopers have a habit of setting up in the woods on other peoples property of course. They will set up there cook site and stay there for weeks or until someone catches them. Most of the time they are all armed so you better be to. So far I haven't had to go hot on them yet just seeing me pop out looking like I do decked out in tactical gear they will give up. But that don't mean I under estimate mate them with a head full of meth no telling how they will act. You guys really would have to come down and see it for yourself it really is crazy the stuff these guys do. They have been getting away with it for years before I bought this place so they won't just stop. It's gotten so bad I have my farm for sale now I'm done with it and scared one day it mite turn hot. You can have them locked up and they will be rite back at it soon as they get out its crazy. But if you value your life you better be prepared if you go out there cause they don't take kindly to people walking up on them in the middle of there business.

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