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Vietnam camo SOG or SF jacket


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Inside the canteen pouch were magazines were carried

 

Could some one of you show their Stabo rigs to see if there are other construction ? I'm very interested.

 

Thaks a lot

 

Cheers

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One other reason ERDLs were seldom used by SOG teams and others recon units using Indigs is that they wanted to develop a unity within the team. Sure they could get the ERDLs for themselves, but then re-outfitting the entire team would take alot more effort. They wanted to develop a strong 'esprit de corps'. They already stood out among their Indigs because of their taller statures, why add to that by wearing a different uniform?

 

Team patches were another way to develop team unity and one reason why they were developed.

 

 

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Sorry....I gotta call BS on the above statement, if ERDLs were available thru supply it would be just as easy to supply the whole team in ERDL as it would with any other other uniform. Sometimes the indig used uniforms that the US guys didn't on ops and besides, there were plenty of ERDL type camo uniforms made for ARVN troops. I think it was just a matter of what worked best and was easiest to get.

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Sorry....I gotta call BS on the above statement, if ERDLs were available thru supply it would be just as easy to supply the whole team in ERDL as it would with any other other uniform. Sometimes the indig used uniforms that the US guys didn't on ops and besides, there were plenty of ERDL type camo uniforms made for ARVN troops. I think it was just a matter of what worked best and was easiest to get.

 

Spike, your philosophy is all wrong. They were trying to develop team cohesion with simple methods like team patches and team uniforms. How could you suggest otherwise? ERDLs are just not seen as often as other jungle uniforms from all the pictures I've seen.

 

It's true...whatever worked or was available was used...that's an easy statement to make...like SEALs using blue jeans for training.

 

 

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And the disconnect that may be occurring here, is that we are referring to the time when ERDLs were first available....NOT during the entire time SOG was running recon or late war when the fabric could be found in any cut!

 

 

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pics

 

They look like member of LLDB rather than indig since they wore retailored US ERDL shirt, the 2 guys in the left seem to have patches or jumpwing on their shirt. The guy in the middle in the back of the SF was likely wearing an OD 3 pockets shirt (with a cut like Tiger Stripe utility)

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"......like SEALs using blue jeans for training."

 

Actually, I have pics and video footage of SEALs during pre-deploying training wearing Levi's and Lee jeans.

 

"They were trying to develop team cohesion with simple methods like team patches and team uniforms. How could you suggest otherwise?"

 

My explanation is JUST as plausable as yours. Have any of you guys actually looked at the SOG book that Hardy/Tucker did? There are all kinds of different uniforms being worn and not everyone is wearing the same uniforms for "team cohesion".

 

Copran, just because there are some guys wearing jump wings that doesn't make them LLDB, if you look in the SOG book you see a bunch of indig wearing jump wings. I also don't totally agree that the ERDL slant pocket uniforms are modified US uniforms, they may be Viet made, notice the epulets. If you REALLY looked at the pic you'd see the SCU/Liason patch on the sleeve of the guy on the left and also the pocket patches are shell burst type patches, reminds me of RT Trowel, Lightning or Plane, Tucker would have a better opinion than I.

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Hi all,

 

Nice thread! I see that the whole French Connection is trying to make its point!

 

To add on the topic of Jerome jungle jacket, that kind of zippers were often used on early party suits.

 

About Bowra's pix, most of the guys with him are Cambodian, no doubt. They can't be vietnamese, not even yards. RT team or not, the members are definitely mostly khmer.

 

They look like member of LLDB rather than indig since they wore retailored US ERDL shirt, the 2 guys in the left seem to have patches or jumpwing on their shirt. The guy in the middle in the back of the SF was likely wearing an OD 3 pockets shirt (with a cut like Tiger Stripe utility)

 

As for this Copran, two guys are wearing SOG shields on their pockets.

 

To come back on the items we French have in our collections... It is quite funny that because we live far from the US some people depise the value of what we have. Just think that ebay and the web opened great oportunitities for us to buy really interesting stuff. More over the euro is high for two years, most of the good stuff for sale in the US go directly to the old continent, in Poland, Spain, Italy, and of course Germany, England and France. If the items we buy are fakes, would it mean that the US dealers are thieves??? dunno.gif

 

Just to spice this thread up, I am the lucky owner of this plaque. OK it is not pristine but everybody interesting in SOG know its original owner.

 

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Funny enough, when I showed this photo to a US dealer his reply was that the stuff of Doug Miller had been stolen years before. Of course... But I have found it in SaiGon (where I live) in 2003 or 2004. So it meant that the thief was kind enough to bring it back in VN... Anyone who knows Doug Miller story understands why this plaque was still in VN.

Anyway, despite that nonsence, it now sits in France! ;)

 

NTS on holidays in Vientiane still looking desperately for interesting items...

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"It is quite funny that because we live far from the US some people depise the value of what we have."

 

Nooooooo, it doesn't matter whether you are from France, the moon or timbucktoo, if you come on a public forum and ask opinions about things, be prepared for those opinions. Some collectors historically have very fragile egos and when something they believe to be real/legit is blasted as to be fake or questionable it can really hurt, crushed even. Who knows for sure if the shirt that started this topic is really "real". It has made for interesting reading for sure and alot of really good knowledge has been gained for all involved. As far as the Bowra pic goes, my gut is telling me that it IS NOT a Khmer team, at least not all of them, I still think it's a late war RT, they are just too well equipped. Unless someone else knows better that hasn't posted yet or Bowra himself tells us, we'll never know.

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if you come on a public forum and ask opinions about things, be prepared for those opinions. Some collectors historically have very fragile egos and when something they believe to be real/legit is blasted as to be fake or questionable it can really hurt, crushed even. Who knows for sure if the shirt that started this topic is really "real".

 

Hi,

 

Of course, the objective to put things in this forum is to get constructive critism and to share, and it's what I'm looking for, but people said a lot of things, some positive, most negative, but I haven't seen any thing that can illustrate what they were writing (we have here 4 era photos of possible SOG team) but no one shows their SOG jacket, STABO... or other similar things that can help the community. ARE YOU AFRAID TO BE ROBBED WHILE SHOWING YOUR STUFFS? I'm interested to see modified jackets even used by other than SOG

 

About the provenance, there's a thread (about something of JUNK UNIFORM with provenance and certificate) from the US collector that EXPLICITLY accuses an reputed US DEALER, and this dealer has its website promoted by other equally reputed US DEALERS in Vietnam Militaria. SO WHERE IS THE TRUTH, should we give our trust to these dealers rather to anyone who sells stuffs in Ebay supposed to belong to their father ...

 

PS: Please give your opinions about the beercans on my bonnie shown earlier

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Spike, I have photographs of Bowra when he was with RT Idaho and RT Sidewinder. He is wearing OD jungle jackets in all of the photos. However, in one of the photos he is standing with another man who is wearing an ERDL "cross border" jacket.

 

Mike,

 

Is there any chance to see this photo with a guy wearing ERDL cross border jacket ?

 

Thanks

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The Doug Miller plaque is interesting and unusual. Miller's property was stolen before he left Viet Nam. I'm sure everyone has always wondered if his gear was taken by Americans and sent home and/or sold in Viet Nam, or if the Vietnamese took the items.

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OK let's add to the Bowra controversy. Here is a pic of him at Long Hai in 1972, with a FANK battalion; he is wearing a non-modified ERDL jacket. Look at the Cambodians, they have a very basic equipment; no stabos or CAR-15s. It doesn't prove anything but leads me to believe that the photo with a modified ERDL jacket was taken in a RT.

 

Gents---this might help to clear up some of the discussion surrounding this picture

 

The photo was actually taken at Vung Tau Airfield, SVN, 1972, when the 198th Battalion (FANK) was returning to Cambodia, following completion of their training at Long Hai Training Battalion (LHTB), FANK Training Command/UITG, Long Hai, SVN. All of the Cambodian soldiers are in new issue US uniforms-and with complete issue of weapons and basic load.

LT Bowra’s camouflage uniform was basic issue at FANK. It includes US Special Forces Shoulder Sleeve insignia,leadership green tabs with SF crest on epaulets (B-36 Long Hai camp tailor did this) left shoulder, "Republique Khmer" shoulder tab, CIB, jump wings, VN jump wings, name tag and US Army tag.

Prior to serving with FANK in SOG, no name tags or US army tags were worn. Only blood type and "Rx" or "No Rx" to morphine.

Fatigues were basic OG 107 jungle fatigues spray painted with flat black splotches-a good form of camouflage-especially as they had no issue camo uniforms as with FANK/UITG Program.

AFB
"When in doubt, Go cyclical"

 

For more information on

"In a Strange Land: The American Occupation of Germany 1918-1923"

"Let's Go! The History of the 29th Infantry Division"

"To Hell with the Kaiser: America Prepares for War 1916-1918 Volumes 1 and 2"

"Desert Uniforms, Patches, and Insignia of the US Armed Forces"

"Forgotten Soldiers of WWI: America's Immigrant Doughboys"

"Play Ball! Doughboys and Baseball During the Great War"

go to

https://www.amazon.com/author/alexanderf.barnes

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Thanks for the hot info CW4AFB.

Can I ask where you got it? I've copied the information and I'd like to give it a reference.

 

What are your thoughts on the pic of Bowra that is shown Below?

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Written contributor to French Militaria Magazine, UK World War II Re-enactors Magazine &The Karkee Web Research Team.

Remembering the service of:
9095 Pte Alfred Fredrick NEWLAND, 7th Field Ambulance, 2 Division, AIF. WIA 16/11/16 France.
436 Private Albert McCANN, B Company 8th Battalion AIF. Enlisted 26/8/14. Killed in Action 17/6/15 Gallipoli.
VX24056 Gunner George Edward McCANN, 2/3 Composite Anti Aircraft Regiment. Enlisted 7/6/40. Discharged 3/8/44. Served in Australia and New Guinea.



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