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Vietnam camo SOG or SF jacket


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Mike,

I know what ment and I'm sorry but I disagree with it.

What I am saying is that special forces got their pick of what they wanted and first.

By 1970 pretty much all Marine combat troops had ERDL. If SF had of wanted that, then that would have been the case.

 

I'm just saying that I think there is another reason rather then just late supply of ERDL for its lack of use by SF in general and MACV-SOG in particular.

I mean the Air Force seems to have been entirely equipped with the stuff. How many ERDLs do you see with Air Force patches? a Bloody lot!

 

I mean if you were a proud Special Forces soldier would you want to wear the same cammo as the Air Force. Or would you rather have your own unique cammo. Tigers or Spray painted jungle fatigues.

 

A former co-worker, who was a an A-team commander in VN, called ERDLs "Airforce" cammies.

 

One of his many funny stories, he was wearing cut off "Air Force" camo pants, no shirt and flip flops-driving a fork lift on their air field. A helicopter landed with some MACV General looking for the "Camp Commander". His Team SGT ran interference, while he went and got dressed.

 

He still got balled out-doing work enlisted guys should be doing !!

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Mr-X, I disagree with your statements about SOG supply. Any non-US Army items available to SOG were handled through CISO, which was completely independent from the US Army logistical system. Any items SOG needed from the Army supply system came through House 50. EDRL was not in these systems. SOG personnel could acquire anything they needed or wanted IF it was within their supply system. Irrespective of this, most SOG men running recon did not want to wear ERDL camo or tiger stripe uniforms. The reason for this is quite simple. When in the field, if spotted by the enemy and you are wearing OD jungle jackets, the NVA will have to take a few seconds to figure out if you are the enemy or a friendly since many of their (NVA) uniforms were similar in color and cut. Wearing ERDL or tiger stripe lets them know immediately that you are not a friendly since the NVA didn't use these types of uniforms. These few seconds are important to the life of a recon team because anyone the recon spots will be an enemy (no other Americans will be in their operating area) and they can open fire immediately.

I have just spoken to a few SOG veterans and they remember that ERDL was not available to them until after 1972 and later. Robert Super Sinton of RT Asp made an ERDL "over the fence" jacket with modified pockets that he used for some cross border operations. He acquired the jacket by stealing it from the clothes line at the Marine facilities at Da Nang. He didn't receive it from supply. I just learned this today.

As regards Lt. Bowra: He was only on RT Idaho and RT Sidewinder. His total time on RT's was about a year. In an interview with Bowra he stated that the images of him with the ERDL jacket and the indigenous personnel were taken at his time with FANK. These men were trained in-country in recon techniques to return to Cambodia. This explains the gear they are wearing.

At this point I have to mention mine and Jason Hardy's book "SOG: Team History and Insignia of a Clandestine Army". There are one of a kind photographs in this book that would answer many questions that have been posed on this forum. All of its information comes from the actual SOG veterans on these teams. There is no better primary source material out there and there is no speculation or theories on our part. You can buy it from www.authenticmilitaria.com .

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Although Robert Sinton was on RT Asp, I believe I made a mistake about when he acquired his ERDL jacket. It was when he was with RT Florida at CCN.

Steve, you are the only one who noticed Sgt. Frank Pulley on the cover! Great image of him in RT Idaho with the team going through IA drill.

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Hello all,

 

After all these passionate discussions with very interesting era pictures, I'd like that you share your SOG items (the ones with papers and you are sure of provenance) so we can really judge what real SOG uniforms look like. We, french collectors, will be interested since we will maybe never see such items.

 

As promised, I took some time to go to my friend house to take some pics of his grouping (from which my ERDL modified belonged to). We have a jacket, a pants and a STABO rigs with pouches ... (the knife and the strobe pouches were added for purpose display), everything were got FREE since the vet gave to my friend's girlfriend's relatives in the early 90s when he knows he collects VN uniforms (but at this time, as young collector, my friend didn't bore to ask for history)

 

The jacket was shortened, without tags, black paint sprayed, 2 bottom pockets added on the sleeves, and magzines pockets were added on the bottom. on the back, a small pants 7th pocket was sewn.

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Of course all the pouches were there , the additionnal items were canteen, sroblight pouche and survival knife. And it was given freely to my Friend. There is another set (OD jacket with just a survival added on the back, no other modification, but it was given for other friend who is ot living near by.

 

Of course, it s free to you to believe, but in France we have 3 SOG set thumbsup.gif for sure I think

 

Cheers

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Although Robert Sinton was on RT Asp, I believe I made a mistake about when he acquired his ERDL jacket. It was when he was with RT Florida at CCN.

Steve, you are the only one who noticed Sgt. Frank Pulley on the cover! Great image of him in RT Idaho with the team going through IA drill.

 

Mike,

I noticed! How could anyone forget his black boonie w/ stars and bars.

 

---Chris

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Mr-X, I disagree with your statements about SOG supply. Any non-US Army items available to SOG were handled through CISO, which was completely independent from the US Army logistical system. Any items SOG needed from the Army supply system came through House 50. EDRL was not in these systems. SOG personnel could acquire anything they needed or wanted IF it was within their supply system. Irrespective of this, most SOG men running recon did not want to wear ERDL camo or tiger stripe uniforms. The reason for this is quite simple. When in the field, if spotted by the enemy and you are wearing OD jungle jackets, the NVA will have to take a few seconds to figure out if you are the enemy or a friendly since many of their (NVA) uniforms were similar in color and cut. Wearing ERDL or tiger stripe lets them know immediately that you are not a friendly since the NVA didn't use these types of uniforms. These few seconds are important to the life of a recon team because anyone the recon spots will be an enemy (no other Americans will be in their operating area) and they can open fire immediately.

I have just spoken to a few SOG veterans and they remember that ERDL was not available to them until after 1972 and later. Robert Super Sinton of RT Asp made an ERDL "over the fence" jacket with modified pockets that he used for some cross border operations. He acquired the jacket by stealing it from the clothes line at the Marine facilities at Da Nang. He didn't receive it from supply. I just learned this today.

As regards Lt. Bowra: He was only on RT Idaho and RT Sidewinder. His total time on RT's was about a year. In an interview with Bowra he stated that the images of him with the ERDL jacket and the indigenous personnel were taken at his time with FANK. These men were trained in-country in recon techniques to return to Cambodia. This explains the gear they are wearing.

At this point I have to mention mine and Jason Hardy's book "SOG: Team History and Insignia of a Clandestine Army". There are one of a kind photographs in this book that would answer many questions that have been posed on this forum. All of its information comes from the actual SOG veterans on these teams. There is no better primary source material out there and there is no speculation or theories on our part. You can buy it from www.authenticmilitaria.com .

 

Fair call, I'll give you that. I stand corrected. Another reason they might not have liked cammo is that lying still cammo is fantastic , but on the move cammo is supposed to catch the eye more. (I think I read that in Stantons uniform book) Once in contact RT's were always on the move.

Written contributor to French Militaria Magazine, UK World War II Re-enactors Magazine &The Karkee Web Research Team.

Remembering the service of:
9095 Pte Alfred Fredrick NEWLAND, 7th Field Ambulance, 2 Division, AIF. WIA 16/11/16 France.
436 Private Albert McCANN, B Company 8th Battalion AIF. Enlisted 26/8/14. Killed in Action 17/6/15 Gallipoli.
VX24056 Gunner George Edward McCANN, 2/3 Composite Anti Aircraft Regiment. Enlisted 7/6/40. Discharged 3/8/44. Served in Australia and New Guinea.



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Of course all the pouches were there , the additionnal items were canteen, sroblight pouche and survival knife. And it was given freely to my Friend. There is another set (OD jacket with just a survival added on the back, no other modification, but it was given for other friend who is ot living near by.

 

Of course, it s free to you to believe, but in France we have 3 SOG set thumbsup.gif for sure I think

 

Cheers

 

Thanks Copran for the STABO pics. If you have any more, please put them up.

Written contributor to French Militaria Magazine, UK World War II Re-enactors Magazine &The Karkee Web Research Team.

Remembering the service of:
9095 Pte Alfred Fredrick NEWLAND, 7th Field Ambulance, 2 Division, AIF. WIA 16/11/16 France.
436 Private Albert McCANN, B Company 8th Battalion AIF. Enlisted 26/8/14. Killed in Action 17/6/15 Gallipoli.
VX24056 Gunner George Edward McCANN, 2/3 Composite Anti Aircraft Regiment. Enlisted 7/6/40. Discharged 3/8/44. Served in Australia and New Guinea.



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Mike:

 

Do you know when House 50 came into being? I know in 1965/1966 supplies were coming out of House 10. I don't honestly know if House 10 was supplying all of SOG but I know they were suppling the personnel at Long Thanh. On the subject of supplies, if they were not in the system and a certain item was needed they got it. I was at House 10 one day visiting WO Tatalaski who was in charge of House 10. At the time they were rigging Agent resupply bundles I personally saw them put a Rolex watch in one of the bundles. WO Tatalaski told me that at times it was unreal what these Agents would request.

 

Art

 

 

 

Mr-X, I disagree with your statements about SOG supply. Any non-US Army items available to SOG were handled through CISO, which was completely independent from the US Army logistical system. Any items SOG needed from the Army supply system came through House 50. EDRL was not in these systems. SOG personnel could acquire anything they needed or wanted IF it was within their supply system. Irrespective of this, most SOG men running recon did not want to wear ERDL camo or tiger stripe uniforms. The reason for this is quite simple. When in the field, if spotted by the enemy and you are wearing OD jungle jackets, the NVA will have to take a few seconds to figure out if you are the enemy or a friendly since many of their (NVA) uniforms were similar in color and cut. Wearing ERDL or tiger stripe lets them know immediately that you are not a friendly since the NVA didn't use these types of uniforms. These few seconds are important to the life of a recon team because anyone the recon spots will be an enemy (no other Americans will be in their operating area) and they can open fire immediately.

I have just spoken to a few SOG veterans and they remember that ERDL was not available to them until after 1972 and later. Robert Super Sinton of RT Asp made an ERDL "over the fence" jacket with modified pockets that he used for some cross border operations. He acquired the jacket by stealing it from the clothes line at the Marine facilities at Da Nang. He didn't receive it from supply. I just learned this today.

As regards Lt. Bowra: He was only on RT Idaho and RT Sidewinder. His total time on RT's was about a year. In an interview with Bowra he stated that the images of him with the ERDL jacket and the indigenous personnel were taken at his time with FANK. These men were trained in-country in recon techniques to return to Cambodia. This explains the gear they are wearing.

At this point I have to mention mine and Jason Hardy's book "SOG: Team History and Insignia of a Clandestine Army". There are one of a kind photographs in this book that would answer many questions that have been posed on this forum. All of its information comes from the actual SOG veterans on these teams. There is no better primary source material out there and there is no speculation or theories on our part. You can buy it from www.authenticmilitaria.com .

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Art, House 10 came into being in 1964 and closed in 1971. It was used as a safe house more than a supply facility. In 1966 House 240 became the supply facility for SOG and was run by Navy personnel. Towards the end of 1967 House 50 became the SOG supply warehouse and remained that way until the end of operations.

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Thanks Copran for the STABO pics. If you have any more, please put them up.

 

I took few more pics of the Stabo today

 

The Stabo 's height ajusting system, there are 2 sizes depending where you put your Belt.

post-1523-1201972203.jpg

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