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DSchlagan

Mossberg US Model "42 MB [a]" .22 Rifle [British Proofs]

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This rifle belongs to a good friend. According to what he described, this rifle was obtained by a family member while serving in WWII, ETO.

 

I have never seen one like it:

 

post-21709-1339210478.jpg

 

post-21709-1339210537.jpg


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

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post-21709-1339210960.jpg

 

post-21709-1339211006.jpg


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

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I have the threaded muzzle cap, half-screwed, for illustration.

 

post-21709-1339211196.jpg

 

The additional magazine still resides in the buttstock'; which was, apparently, heavily damaged when 'butt-stroking' a German soldier on the lid.

 

post-21709-1339211220.jpg

 

 

He also has a US marked Mossberg Model 42 MB, which is a fair amount different than this rifle.

Most notably: the stock has a cheek-rest, and does not have the threads on muzzle.

 

Regards,

Don.


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

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Don

 

Nice Mossy.There are several models some with a detachable magazine and some with a tubular magazine that runs hiddin in the stock.Bolt action and semi auto moodels.Mossbergs have become quite collectible in the last 10 years and frankly I have always like them .I bought a bolt action sporting model back when I was about 14 years old for $35 and I still have it and its a great old rifle.Mossberg is underappreciated in my opnion.The older ones are very well made and finnished and very reliable.I have one like this model but mine is a tube fed magazine model.I was able to pick it up for $130 a year ago and I dont regret it a bit.Was on a dealers table at a show I attended and the seller had just removed it from a relatives closet to bring to the show.

 

THis one looks like it was marked for military use and I would assume it was for military trainer use.Have no idea why it would have been in the ETO unless it made it to England as a trainer??


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Don

...This one looks like it was marked for military use and I would assume it was for military trainer use.Have no idea why it would have been in the ETO unless it made it to England as a trainer??

Thank you for your observations Ron.

[i believe that I have the same/similar tube-fed Mossberg, as you describe, that this same friend gave to me.]

 

That threaded muzzle would seem to be indicative of something more towards SOE or OSS; especially with the Model "42 MB", that he has, being quite different.

 

The proof-marks may bare some additional info, from those that are more studied in such:

 

post-21709-1339213040.jpg

 

 

 

post-21709-1339213097.jpg

 

post-21709-1339213123.jpg


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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post-21709-1339213952.jpg

 

post-21709-1339213967.jpg


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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Don

 

Are those Brit proofs like lend lease??


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Don

 

Are those Brit proofs like lend lease??

 

Ron,

 

I can only surmise such, w/o a more thorough knowledge of proof-marks; though, they certainly look Brit to me.

 

Regards,

Don.


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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Ron,

 

I can only surmise such, w/o a more thorough knowledge of proof-marks; though, they certainly look Brit to me.

 

Regards,

Don.

 

 

I agree.

 

The rear sight looks loke the target sight on my rifle.My front sights can be changed and I need to find a hood.I think I would post this on a Mossberg board.

 

RD


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Crown BNP= British Nitro Proof

hey Linedoggie, I was just typing that too! :lol:

Don, that's a really nice rifle. Great pickup! :thumbsup:

Terry


to all who have served!


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Hi Don !

Nice rifle!

As for the British proof marks they are not military but commercial. They were mandatory when a military firegun was released from British Gvt. for commercial sale. The proof marks on your rifle are those applied after the Proof Act of 1955. If the letters on the sides of the crossed swords are G B then the marks were put onto the rifle in 1956 (every year had different letters, and the number was the Inspector's identification). You can find marks like these on all U.S. Lend-Lease pistols, revolvers and rifles released for sale from British Gvt. The same marks are present on British military fireguns released for sale when in England guns were permitted. Now, since many years, England is a sad place for gun collectors... Virtually, only deactivated guns are allowed, with a few exceptions for hunters and range shooters...

Hope this can help...

Fausto

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DSchlagen,

 

Very cool rifle. I'm especially interested in the threaded muzzle. It's probably threaded for a Maxim silencer. In the Pacific, some Reising Model 65's were equipped in the same manner, and were apparently known as "Rat Rifles." They were used for shooting rats around the bases and camps, and I suppose they could have also been used for small game, which might have been a more likely use in the ETO. Then again, it could be some sort of special operations rifle, but I have not heard of any specifics in that regard.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


NRA Life Member
Past President, The American Thompson Association
American Society of Arms Collectors
Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Carbine Club
Garand Collectors Association

International Ammunition Association
Contributing Writer, Small Arms Review Magazine
Co-Author, "Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, & Other Paper Items" Collector Guide
One of the "Other Authors" of "The Ultimate Thompson Book," by Tracie L. Hill
Eagle Scout, and Member of NESA

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See this link for more information on the Model 42MB(a). It was a Lend Lease gun.

 

http://home.epix.net/~damguy/42us.htm

 

The Mossberg nuts over at Rimfire Central can probably give you some additional details. I remain puzzled by the threaded barrel.

 

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showt...threaded+barrel

 

HTH.

 

Regards,

Charlie


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The 42MB was a military version of the 42M and was sold to the British as part of the lend lease program. Since it appears your rifle serial number starts in the 30k range I expect your rifle is from contract 1/1/43 W-478-ord-3077 5000 rifles $13.49 .. info obtained from the book Mossberg More gun for the money by Vic Havlin.... the MB while not really common can be found at many of the large gun shows... since they were primarliy (i believe) made for lend lease it is not rare to find them with Lend Lease British proofs. I recently saw one with British Proofs at a Michigan show.. seller was asking $250 but it did not sell...

 

As for the adapter on the front. It was and probably still is common for british and european rilfles to have silencers fixed to them for indoor target practice and shooting. I suspect that this was a modification done after the war. In fact it was not that odd to see early 22s in the states with that feature.. winchester offered it on 22s, however, our laws become restrictive and silencers were/strictly controlled.

 

Neat rifle and thanks for sharing..

 

CC

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The 42MB was a military version of the 42M and was sold to the British as part of the lend lease program. Since it appears your rifle serial number starts in the 30k range I expect your rifle is from contract 1/1/43 W-478-ord-3077 5000 rifles $13.49 .. info obtained from the book Mossberg More gun for the money by Vic Havlin.... the MB while not really common can be found at many of the large gun shows... since they were primarliy (i believe) made for lend lease it is not rare to find them with Lend Lease British proofs. I recently saw one with British Proofs at a Michigan show.. seller was asking $250 but it did not sell...

 

As for the adapter on the front. It was and probably still is common for british and european rilfles to have silencers fixed to them for indoor target practice and shooting. I suspect that this was a modification done after the war. In fact it was not that odd to see early 22s in the states with that feature.. winchester offered it on 22s, however, our laws become restrictive and silencers were/strictly controlled.

 

Neat rifle and thanks for sharing..

 

CC

 

My buddy picked up a pump inchester with threaded barrel.His first thought was someone did a bubba job on it.Found out its actually a gallery gun.Was common to see silenced .22s at the the galleris and carnivals back in the 20s and 30s but not common to find them now.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Thanks much, to all, for the interest and detailed information!!

 

Those links that Charlie posted are an interesting read, as well.

Apparently, the major difference between the Models "42 M-B" and the "42 MB (@)" was that a different extractor was used.

It does seem kinda oddly unique that a weapon would have a different designation, simply because of a different extractor; unless that other extractor was 'problematic'.

 

Regards,

Don.


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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Additional photos of threaded muzzle:

 

post-21709-1339279729.jpg

 

post-21709-1339279748.jpg

 

Very professional job, regardless of origin.


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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Additional photos of threaded muzzle:

 

post-21709-1339279729.jpg

 

post-21709-1339279748.jpg

 

Very professional job, regardless of origin.

 

I think the rifle was made with the threaded muzzle originally. Just my $.02.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


NRA Life Member
Past President, The American Thompson Association
American Society of Arms Collectors
Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Carbine Club
Garand Collectors Association

International Ammunition Association
Contributing Writer, Small Arms Review Magazine
Co-Author, "Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, & Other Paper Items" Collector Guide
One of the "Other Authors" of "The Ultimate Thompson Book," by Tracie L. Hill
Eagle Scout, and Member of NESA

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I think the rifle was made with the threaded muzzle originally. Just my $.02.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

David,

 

That was what I had surmised. It is extremely professionally done, and even the bluing matches.

 

I had originally figured (before further info, kindly referenced) that this was one of the 'main' differences between this Model and the "42 M-B"; as my friend owns one of each.

 

Thank you for your insight.

 

Kind Regards,

Don.


'No matter what the question ...the answer is always Clausewitz.'

'A nation's strength is defined not by the size of its army, but by whether it means what it says.' Prussian MG C.P.G. von Clausewitz

 

* The MER of an excuse is zero meters.*

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience." GA Omar N. Bradley

 

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key." PM Winston Churchill

donation2011.gif

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From what I can see your 42 M-B made it England under the lend-lease agreement, was released to the public and that is when it got it's 1/2 X 20 t.p.i. threads/cap. This was a common mod in Britian at the time.

 

The proofs are Brit commercial proofs. I have one that went through a refurb at Enfield and is both Enfield proofed and 1948 dated.

 

These rifles were often heavily modded by the Brits at civilian rifle clubs. In addition to the threaded barrel your front sight is wrong. It takes a FS that has three posts and a circle that folds to the side. They were sent to Britian with a rear barrel sporter sight but they were often removed as yours looks to be.

 

I just bought four Brit proofed 42 M-B parts rifles and three were threaded.

 

There is a wealth of info here: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51

 

I'm sure they would like to see another threaded 42 M-B as they are a bit thin on the ground in the US.

 

My four-fer. I was able to complete the top one and just lacked a FS to complete the other out of the parts. the second one from the top is threaded w/cap. None had mags but I found a guy that had four orgional mags and bought them all.

 

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