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Torch03

WWII Jump Wings and Ovals

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Here is an oval that I picked up today. I am still trying to figure out how to tell the difference between a WWII production oval and a post-WWII oval. Correct me if I am wrong, but this one is for the XVIII Airborne Corps. I removed the jump wings as they were a subdued pair of senior master blaster wings.

 

If anyone can help educate me on these I would deeply appreciate it!

 

 

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Here is an oval that I picked up today. I am still trying to figure out how to tell the difference between a WWII production oval and a post-WWII oval. Correct me if I am wrong, but this one is for the XVIII Airborne Corps. I removed the jump wings as they were a subdued pair of senior master blaster wings.

 

If anyone can help educate me on these I would deeply appreciate it!

post-203-1342119856.jpg post-203-1342119871.jpg

 

 

Probably started to be worn after the Corps was reactivated in May 1951, don,t believe one was worn in WWII. The photo below is one taken after VE day, it shows a few XVIII Airborne Corps Staff officers, a very interesting photo, I dont see hardly anyone with Jump wings no less the oval behind the ones that do have them, and even these wing may be in fact Glider Qualifcation Badges. Of note all are the wearing of the Glider/parachute badge on the caps as well as the Tabs over the shoulder patch, all of them I wager, as some have their left shoulkders facing away from the camera, also of note only two officers have their boots bloused, one of these, the one on the left doesn't seem to be wearing any wings, Parachute or Glider, a very interesting image.

post-34986-1342122388.jpg

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Looks like a picture of "Want-A Bees". No disrespect but Airborne units have plenty of "LEG" slot-fillers. Just as a note, WW2 jump veterans did'nt even consider Glider Infantry Troopers as genuine Airborne unless they were with the 11th. Like I said, no disrespect.

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Looks like a picture of "Want-A Bees". No disrespect but Airborne units have plenty of "LEG" slot-fillers. Just as a note, WW2 jump veterans did'nt even consider Glider Infantry Troopers as genuine Airborne unless they were with the 11th. Like I said, no disrespect.

 

The Paratroopers I can take it had absolutly no respect for Glider troopers, Funny they fought and died next to Paratroopers, giving there all just like the Paratroopers you figure one or two would say hey these Glider Riders are ALRIGHT !

 

 

From what I could see after a quick search on these Wanabees is that all these officers would be without a doubt highly repected and highly competant officers, most served in the 82nd Airborne Division thoughout the days in Sicily, Italy, Normandy, they were picked by Matthew Ridgway himself for this high comand Staff assignments, they also are decorated officers. They wear all the items they are intitaled to wear as Glider troops, the ones with Jump Boots, I sure are Jump qualified, it just being the silght bluryness of this image that we can't discern parachute badges on these men.

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The Paratroopers I can take it had absolutly no respect for Glider troopers, Funny they fought and died next to Paratroopers, giving there all just like the Paratroopers you figure one or two would say hey these Glider Riders are ALRIGHT !

From what I could see after a quick search on these Wanabees is that all these officers would be without a doubt highly repected and highly competant officers, most served in the 82nd Airborne Division thoughout the days in Sicily, Italy, Normandy, they were picked by Matthew Ridgway himself for this high comand Staff assignments, they also are decorated officers. They wear all the items they are intitaled to wear as Glider troops, the ones with Jump Boots, I sure are Jump qualified, it just being the silght bluryness of this image that we can't discern parachute badges on these men.

 

Well said...

 

I suspect that the paratroopers had just as much respect for glider troopers as anyone else. While I can't say for sure, there does seem to be a fair amount of elitism being tossed about concerning some of the WWII units well after the fact. I recall in BoB, someone says that the men joined the paratroopers so they didn't have to serve next to some draftee who would get them killed (said with a sneer, as if a draftee was a lesser being). I had later read that that particular statement stuck in more than a few people's craw--as if the infantry guys wading ashore on D-Day had it any easier than the guys parachuting into Normandy earlier that day. Perhaps Steven Ambrose kind of "goosed" that idea to make his point for his book. I suspect that the WWII paratroops that had actually done some fighting had just as much respect for the glider troops and infantrymen (and perhaps even the armor guys--especially late in December of '44) fighting (and getting killed) along side them as anyone else.

 

Patrick

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You guys are too argumenative. What I said had nothing to do with fighting and giving thier lives next to each other- What I said was, " If you ain't Airborne- you ain't". Now I wish you all well-No disrespect.

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You guys are too argumenative. What I said had nothing to do with fighting and giving thier lives next to each other- What I said was, " If you ain't Airborne- you ain't". Now I wish you all well-No disrespect.

 

 

I sure hope you were an 11 Bang Bang, as we had a saying in days of old, being that if you ain't Infantry you ain,t S/I/H/T.. I guess you must DESPISE the Boys in todays 101st AIrborne Division, there Air Assault.

 

 

There will be no disrespect againt Me or most other Ex Army members who were not Airborne, BUT their will be to the thousands of Soldiers of the Glider Infantry, Artillery, Combat Engineers, who fought in WWII in the 82nd, 101st, 11, 17th Airborne Divisions, not to mention the ones in the 13th who were straining at the bit to GLIDE into action but were never given the chance, a great many of these men made the Supreme Sacrifice, these men were proud of their service in the Airborne Divisions, as guess what, the conduct and operations of the WWII Airborne Divisions would have gotten nowhere if not for the a Glider Troops, simply because they were a integral part of the WWII Airborne Division, it was here that the bulk of the Divisional Artillery support came from, as well as the Division's Combat Engineers, and what of the Glider Infantry Regiments, do you think the Divisions would made due without this Infantry ? I know how chavinstic Paratroopers can be, I being a Former 11B am the same way in this reguard, but it can get alittle over the top, Like at Bastonge, right, we weren't surrounded, we didn't need to rescued etc, the 101st was surrounded, yes it was, BUT it also had loads of NON airborne units in the Bastonge perimeter with it, which contributed to the overall defense, which if not for these extra non Airborne units like the Armored people in those two Combat Command of the 9th and 10th Armored Divisions in example, the defense would have collapsed real quick like. if the 101 was left to fend for itself without being releaved, it in time would have been destroyed, destroyed along with the other units. It was the Infantry and Armored Divisions that really helped break the strangle hold on the Bastogne perimeter, not the other way around, the 101 did an outstanding job, an EPIC job,there no denying it, but it tend,s to forget that it was a very small part of the Army as a whole in the Ardennes region, and this has been abetted by recent movies .Anyway ragbag I Thank you for an interesting rebuttle, and I'm sorry that we or I are drifting away of topic.

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Well said- All the best-Rag

 

I think one thing is esprit de corps. The rightful pride in the training, skills and accomplishments that the units went through that bring them together as a cohesive organization. Lots of units have that--and the paratroopers and USMC seem to have it in spades :thumbsup: Sometimes, that may get mutated to something slightly more malignant--where pride of your accomplishments turns to scorn of other's abilities. That was what I was referring to in the BoB quote. I suspect that in pointing out the high esprit de corp of a company of 101st paratroopers who had gone through Toccoa, Ambrose had moved to the latter and implied disrespect of non-paratroopers.

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I'm wondering if someone here might be able to help me with oval identification. I have an old picture of my great uncle who joined late in the war. We are having trouble finding any documentation saying what unit he was in. based on the picture, He's got jump wings on with an oval behind. The oval seems to either be two colors or one color with a thin diagonal line from top left to bottom right. On the sleeve, you can only see a small piece of the patch. It has an airborne tab which is not separated from the main patch like the 82nd patch. It seems to have a shield sort of shape. Potentially the read airborne patch? I'm very interested in the oval. Any help is very appreciated.

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By TO&E, the HHC of XVIII WAS NOT "AIRBORNE". It had no slots designated EITHER para or glider.

 

Its Airborne-ness -- including wearing the tab -- was the creation of Ridgway.

 

According to the War Dept, it was simply HHC, XVIII Corps. Even at the end of the war and back Stateside at Campbell, it was referred to as "XVIII Corps (Airborne)".

 

The few Parachutist slots (jump pay) there were in use/occupied were "stolen" from other units. Some such slots may have come from HHC 2nd AIRBORNE (by WD opinion and TO&E) Brigade. That unit was not inactivated during the war, though its subordinate units were taken away and ATTACHED to the 82nd and 101st from before Normandy until the end of the war.

 

Only when the XVIII was reactivated in 1951, was it OFFICIALLY designated "Airborne", per HQDA order.

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I'm sure that ya'll have seen the combined para/ glider wings. I'm wondering about the correctness of them. Were they issued or private purchase, or none of the above?

 

Thanks

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The combined para-glider were legitimate and worn -- BUT only by the 11th Airborne Division. Genuine wings should be STERLING and made in Japan.

 

There are British-marked versions floating in Collectordom, but they make no sense. Outside the 11th, their wear after the war would not have been via ISSUE, but private-purchase, and dozens of sharp-eyed platoon sgts and 1st sgts would have disapproved.

 

If a soldier was qualified to wear both para and glider wings, THAT was authorized.

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Just picked this nice pair of (what I think) is a Japanese made set of jump wings. What do you guys think?

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Just a quick post from a new member to this forum to say thanks to everyone who posted their insignia. Some stunning collections and individual insignia that made my night just scrolling through each post.

 

Thanks again

 

Paul

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Greetings!

 

Here's a jump wing that I have and I'd like to know who the maker is.

 

Can anyone tell me?

 

Thanks in advance for the info/help

 

hardheaded

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