Navy Awards Question

[David F]

I am seeking advice on how the US Navy recognizes surface combat in its individual awards. The person centered on my question was a Sea1c on board the USS San Francisco (CA-38) during WWII, from 4 April 1942 until sometime in 1946. He participated in 15 of the ship's 17 combat actions to include the period in which the ship earned the Presidential Unit Citation.

 

Would the Sailor in question wear any stars on either their Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal, or on their retroactively earned Combat Action Ribbon? If they are worn; what type are they, and how would this be done? 15 actions is a heck of a lot!

 

Thanks,

David

[David F]

Double Post

[67Rally]

I am seeking advice on how the US Navy recognizes surface combat in its individual awards. The person centered on my question was a Sea1c on board the USS San Francisco (CA-38) during WWII, from 4 April 1942 until sometime in 1946. He participated in 15 of the ship's 17 combat actions to include the period in which the ship earned the Presidential Unit Citation.

 

Would the Sailor in question wear any stars on either their Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal, or on their retroactively earned Combat Action Ribbon? If they are worn; what type are they, and how would this be done? 15 actions is a heck of a lot!

 

Thanks,

David

 

 

I have to check, but I am almost certain that we don't add stars for combat actions within the same conflict (i.e. WWII) to the CAR. A star would be added for Korea or Vietnam if the sailor was eligible.

 

As far as the additional campaign stars on the APCM, you'd have to verify the stars awarded to the San Fran for the time period that your sailor was attached.

[David F]

67Rally, thank's for the help.

 

I have verified the ship's Muster Rolls for his assignment, and have used the USS San Francisco Memorial Foundation website for the ship's participations, and credits earned.

 

I was sort of feeling the same idea about the CAR as you have preliminarily posted. I look forwad to your final advice. I am definitely unsure on the APCM. Are each of the participated actions represented by a star on the APCM? If so, does the US Navy use the same bronze (1) and silver (5) star system as the US Army?

 

David

[Bluejacket]

David,

 

I believe the CAR is retroactive to March 1961, so veterans, and warships, with only WWII service would not be elgible.

 

Bluejacket

[Jack's Son]

David,

I believe the CAR is retroactive to March 1961, so veterans, and warships, with only WWII service would not be elgible.

Bluejacket

I believe you will find that the ribbon is retroactive to Dec. 7, 1942.

[67Rally]

APCM campaigns that would allow for a star to be added to the medal/ribbon are listed here.

 

Checking the Navy Awards Manual, I am correct that all of WWII constitutes a single conflict thus only one award of the CAR applies. Subsequent conflicts (i.e. Korea, Viet Nam, Desert Storm, OIF, OEF) each would rate the additional award denoting of a gold star.

 

c. Operations. An individual, whose eligibility has

been established in combat in any of the following listed opera-

tions is authorized the award of the CAR. Only one award per

operation is authorized. The listing is not all inclusive as

 

2-28

 

SECNAVINST 1650.1G

 

the CAR has been awarded in minor operations and for specific

actions. Subsequent awards will be indicated by the use of a

Gold Star on the ribbon:

 

(1) Southeast Asia.

 

From 01Mar61 to 15Aug73.

 

From 28Apr65 to 21Sep66.

 

(2) Dominican Republic.

(No ships qualified)

 

(3) USS LIBERTY (AGTR 5).

 

(4) USS PUEBLO (AGTR 2).

 

(5) Operation FREQUENT WIND.

Operations, Saigon) 29Apr75 and 30Apr75.

 

08Jun67 and 09Jun67.

 

23Jan68.

 

(Evacuation

(No ships)

 

(6) Operation MAYAGUEZ.

 

(7) Grenada.

 

(8) Lebanon.

 

(9) Persian Gulf

 

(a) COMNAVSPECWAR Task Unit Tango - 22Sep87

 

( USS SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (FFG 58) - 14Apr88

 

© Operation PRAYING MANTIS - 18Apr88

 

15May75.

 

24Oct83 - 02Nov83.

 

20Aug82 to 01Aug84.

 

(No ships)

 

(No ships)

 

(No ships)

 

SAG BRAVO

COMDESRON NINE STAFF embarked on (DD 976)

USS MERRILL (DD 976)

HSL-35 DET 1

USS LYNDE MCCORMICK (DDG 8)

USS TRENTON (LPD 14)

CONTINGENCY MAGTF 2-88

HSL 44, DET 5

 

SAG CHARLIE

USS WAINWRIGHT (CG 28)

USS BAGLEY (FF 1069)

HSL-35, DET 7

 

2-29

 

SECNAVINST 1650.1G

 

USS SIMPSON (FFG 56)

HSL-42, DET 10

COMMANDER, NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE TASK

GROUP MIDDLE EAST FORCE

SEAL TEAM TWO, THIRD PLATOON

 

SAG DELTA

COMDESRON TWENTY-TWO

USS JACK WILLIAMS (FFG 24)

HSL-32, DET 2

USS JOSEPH STRAUSS (DDG 16)

USS O'BRIEN (DD 975)

HSL-33, DET 2

CO, SPEC BOAT UNIT TWELVE

SEAL TEAM 5, PLATOON C

 

(d) USS ELMER MONTGOMERY (FF 1082)

USS VINCENNES (CG 49) - 03Jul88

 

(e) Persian Gulf MCM Operations. Specific units

during 19Nov87 to 01Apr88; 14 to 20Apr88; 20 to 23Apr88; and

02Aug90 to 10Sep91.

 

(10) Operation JUST CAUSE (Panama).

(No ships qualified)

 

20Dec89 -

 

31Jan90.

 

(11) Operation SHARP EDGE.

ships qualified)

 

05Aug90 - 24Aug90.

 

(No

 

(12) Operation DESERT STORM.

 

17Jan91 - 28Feb91.

 

(a) The Secretary of the Navy approved the CAR

as an exception to policy for the following ships that operated

north of 28.30N and west of 49.30E from 17Jan91 to 28Feb91:

 

USS ADROIT (MSO 509)

USS BEAUFORT (ATS 2)

USS CARON (DD 970)

USS DURHAM (LKA 114)

USS FORD (FFG 54)

USS PAUL F. FOSTER (DD 964)

 

USS AVENGER (MCM 1)

USS BUNKER HILL (CG 52)

USS CURTS (FFG 38)

USS FIFE (DD 991)

USS FORT MCHENRY (LSD 43)

USS HAWES (FFG 53)

USNS HASSAYAMPA (T-AO 145)

USS IMPERVIOUS (MSO 449)

USS KIDD (DDG 993)

USS LEADER (MSO 490)

USS MACDONOUGH (DDG 39)

USS MISSOURI (BB 63)

USS NASSAU (LHA 4)

USS NICHOLAS (FFG 47)

USS OLDENDORF (DD 972)

USS PORTLAND (LSD 37)

USS RALEIGH (LPD 1)

USS VREELAND (FF 1068)

USS WORDEN (CG 18)

USS HORNE (CG 30)

USS JARRETT (FFG 33)

USS LASALLE (AGF 3)

USS LEFTWICH (DD 984)

USS MCINERNEY (FFG 8)

USS MOBILE BAY (CG 53)

USS NIAGARA FALLS (AFS 3)

USS OKINAWA (LPH 3)

USNS PASSUMPSIC (T-AO 107

USS PRINCETON (CG 59)

USS TRIPOLI (LPH 10)

USS WISCONSIN (BB 64)

 

( The following ships were approved for the

 

dates indicated:

 

31Mar95.

USNS COMFORT (T-AH 20)

 

26Feb91

USS GUAM (LPH 9)

 

25-26Feb91

USS IWO JIMA (LPH 2)

 

26Feb91

USS OGDEN (LPD 5)

 

25-26Feb91

USS MISSOURI (BB 63)

 

12Feb91 and 25Feb91

VC-6 Detachment

EODMU Detachments

USS RICHMOND K. TURNER (CG 20) 19-24Feb91

USS VALLEY FORGE (CG 50)

 

16-28 February 1991

USS LEADER (MSO 490)

23Mar91

 

(13) El Salvador.

 

(14) Operation RESTORE HOPE (Somalia). 5Dec92 -

(No ships qualified)

 

(15) Cambodia.

 

01JAN81 to 01FEB92.

 

01JUN92 to 15NOV93.

 

(16) Operation ASSURED RESPONSE (Monrovia, Liberia).

07Apr96 to 18Apr96. (No ships qualified).

 

(17) Kosovo Campaign.

from 24Mar99 to 27Jan00.

[hink441]

I believe you will find that the ribbon is retroactive to Dec. 7, 1942.

 

Did you mean Dec. 7, 1941 ???

 

Chris

[67Rally]

I believe you will find that the ribbon is retroactive to Dec. 7, 1942.

 

I believe that you meant to type "1941" which is correct in the instruction.

[67Rally]

APCM Campaign/Battle stars:

 

[Jack's Son]

I believe you will find that the ribbon is retroactive to Dec. 7, 1941.

Yes gentlemen, I did.....thank you! :thumbsup:

[David F]

Ah-ha! I found some more info to my question on stars! [i wish I could have found this earlier today ]:

 

 

SECNAVINST 1650.1G

N09B13

7 January 2002

SECNAV INSTRUCTION 1650.1G

From: Secretary of the Navy

To: All Ships and Stations

Subj: NAVY AND MARINE CORPS AWARDS MANUAL

 

122. ATTACHMENTS TO BE WORN ON RIBBONS AND MEDALS

1. Stars. All stars will be worn with two points (rays) pointing down. The larger size (5/16 inch for naval military decorations and 3/16 inch for unit, campaign and service awards, with the exception of the Navy "E" Ribbon) is worn on the suspension ribbon of the large medal and service ribbon or ribbon bar to denote subsequent awards received. The smaller size (1/8 inch) is worn on miniature medals. For personal naval military decorations, gold stars are used for the 2nd through the 5th, 7th through 10th, 12th and so forth. Silver stars are used in lieu of

multiples of five gold stars; i.e. the 6th, 11th, etc. For unit, campaign and service awards, with the exception of the Navy "E" Ribbon, bronze and silver stars are used similarly.

 

David

[Tim B]

David,

 

Except, that during WWII, the stars were worn single point down. That changed sometime after the war and after at least 1947.

 

Tim

[David F]

Tim, that is some really great info. While it may look awkward by current standards, it apparently was the order of its day [pre-1948]!

 

David

[Tim B]

Hi David,

 

Yes, to be accurate, you really need to find and use the regulations of the period. Easier said than done as most are lost records now.

 

I do have a friend that is trying to get all these together at the moment but I do not know if he has the Navy ones.

 

I meant to add that, keep in mind the regs were not always followed, especially if the member got out and just made up a bar afterwards.

 

Tim

[Jack's Son]

AND remember David.....if the ship was awarded stars for battles in the Southern Hemisphere, the ribbon go on backward!!

[67Rally]

AND remember David.....if the ship was awarded stars for battles in the Southern Hemisphere, the ribbon go on backward!!

 

 

No, JS, they swirl the opposite direction when flushed.

[Johnnymac]

If the DSM and the SS both have stars on them with the single point up, why would there be any stars with the single point down after 1905, outside of the HoM.

 

This may explain when the changed from single point down to up happen.

 

The Institute of Heraldry

 

Chevrons were sewn on the sleeves of uniforms with the point down from approximately 1820 to 1903. They were worn with the points both up and down between 1903 and 1905 after the first reversal from "down" to "up" was authorized on 1 May 1903 in Army Regulation No. 622. This confusion period, from 1903 to 1905, was the result of the color change in the chevrons provided for in the regulation which also directed a standard color for each branch, corps, or organization and replaced the gold-colored chevrons. Because of the number of gold insignia available, troops were permitted to wear the old-type chevron until the supply became exhausted.

[Tim B]

This topic has come up a few times before and I'll add that, in over 20 years of Naval service, I have always been told they had nothing to do with each other. Basically:

 

Officer stars were first approved on January 28, 1864. All uniform regulations since 1873 have specified that one ray of the star should point downward toward the gold stripe on the sleeve. The reason for this is unknown.

 

I should point out that only "Line Officers" wear a star, other types have their respective specialty insignia in place of a star on the sleeve and shoulder boards.

 

 

From: http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia05.htm"

 

Why do the stars on the uniform have two points up?"

 

This question has been asked innumerable times, with no answer found. The Uniform Board cannot clarify the matter. They have received many queries on the subject and have, over the years, researched it thoroughly. The star on the sleeve has had two points up for well over 150 years. It is probable that the original decision was made from the personal preference of an individual in authority or by some uniform board of many years ago. It is interesting to note than an All-Navy notice of 1945 specifies that engagement stars were worn two points up. In 1964, another order changed this to one point up to conform with the Silver Star Medal, the Bronze Star Medal and the U.S. ensign. The Uniform Board did not consider changing the line officer's star.

 

As far as is known, there is no heraldic meaning to the number of star points up or down.

[Tim B]

AND remember David.....if the ship was awarded stars for battles in the Southern Hemisphere, the ribbon go on backward!!

 

Yes, but the stars are unaffected as the Coriolis effects only Earth, not celestial, objects! :w00t: