Buzz Rickson's update.

[doyler]

This one's just for Ron!

 

 

Yesh...all mine

[BC312]

Looking at the sizes of buzzes kit they seem to be of sizes that would fit the Japanese. I too would love to have the two type of deck jacket, very iconic gear, in the mean time i am going to check my lottery tickets.

[willysmb44]

Doesn't anyone else remember back in the 80s when a lot of WW2 jackets were going to buyers who were taking them to Japan? As I understand it, you could see a young person walking around Tokyo with an original painted A-2 jacket on, worn as normal casual wear. That trend last a long time. When I sold almost all my original A-2s, all the ones I sold wound up in Japan because that's where the best money was coming from. I sold them because I needed money to go back to school, otherwise I wouldn't have dreamed of selling them so I had to go with the best bucks I could find. This was pre-eBay.

What I have discovered about Japanese purchasing in the business I am current in as well as collecting Japanese items for many years is that the Japanese culture tends to still equate hight Dollar/Yen purchase with a high quality and value product. While American buyers tend to always look for the deal, Japanese buyers are willing to pay top dollar for a high quality item, no questions asked. I buy a lot of Japanese products and the quality is always beyond what it should be compared to American products, it be a magazine,a model kit, clothing or books but with that comes a higher price. Presentation is important in Japanese culture and products.

That has been my observation as well, I've been following the same types of things for a while now. We look for a deal, they look for something they can brag about for the price (and usually quality to match). The funny part is that my understanding is that reproduction places here in the US don't sell much to Japan, even though the prices are way less and often with good quality. No bragging rights if you do it that way, the the Japanese perspective.

[redjoshman]

Historic Preservation Associates in the USA occasionally has sales of their various Buzz Rickson Products and Buzz Rickson products also pop up on ebay occasionally for less. This is how I picked up my Buzz Rickson Tanker Jacket and my soon to arrive Buzz Rickson M41.

 

-Josh

[rr01]

The biggest contributer to this is the continuously declining American dollar. If you keep in mind the last high dollar exchange rate in 1972 of ¥360 to $1.00 then it's easy to see why the prices for us are now so high. For the Japanese, however they really only have to deal with domestic inflation. In 1972 a Japanese worker on an American base might make ¥36,000/mo or $100 {just an example} but now that same unadjusted amount is over four times greater.

I also agree that the Japanese, among other Asian groups prize quality over value which is also why many of them prefer Rolexes to Seikos.

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

I'll try to keep this thread in mind. Once in a while I come across one or two of the original jackets, usually the USAF early 1950's ones. L2's and such. I don't collect them or I'd have a real nice collection. I think I've sold a couple of them overseas, surprisingly, Japan.

 

Rock

[Sabrejet]

I'll try to keep this thread in mind. Once in a while I come across one or two of the original jackets, usually the USAF early 1950's ones. L2's and such. I don't collect them or I'd have a real nice collection. I think I've sold a couple of them overseas, surprisingly, Japan.

 

Rock

 

 

It's strange but true that there's a very vibrant collectors' market for quality repro items. Over the years I've sold many Eastman flight jackets of various types on eBay. They always attract loads of bids and sell big! In that sense, they are rather like BMWs or Mercedes-Benz in that their re-sale value is little different (sometimes even more!) than their original cost. The same would apply to Buzz Rickson's products. People are prepared to pay much more for a repro than an equivalent original would probably cost them. Go figure!? :think:

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

It's strange but true that there's a very vibrant collectors' market for quality repro items. Over the years I've sold many Eastman flight jackets of various types on eBay. They always attract loads of bids and sell big! In that sense, they are rather like BMWs or Mercedes-Benz in that their re-sale value is little different (sometimes even more!) than their original cost. The same would apply to Buzz Rickson's products. People are prepared to pay much more for a repro than an equivalent original would probably cost them. Go figure!? :think:

 

It's true, people will pay a lot for a reproduction. Nearly all of the jackets I get hold of are original though. And as you said, they pay about as much for the original as they're willing to pay for a repro.

 

Rock

[vintageproductions]

Here's a Japanese website on US repo flight jackets:

 

http://www.nakatashoten.com/indexmenu.html

 

What I have discovered about Japanese purchasing in the business I am current in as well as collecting Japanese items for many years is that the Japanese culture tends to still equate hight Dollar/Yen purchase with a high quality and value product. While American buyers tend to always look for the deal, Japanese buyers are willing to pay top dollar for a high quality item, no questions asked. I buy a lot of Japanese products and the quality is always beyond what it should be compared to American products, it be a magazine,a model kit, clothing or books but with that comes a higher price. Presentation is important in Japanese culture and products.

 

I can see why these high quality bespoke items are popular with Japanese collectors.

 

Leonardo

 

The sad part with Nakata's shop is all the items are made in China now and soon to be Pakistan.

The rest of the companies mentioned still make all their items in Japan.

[Corpsmancollector]

Here's a Japanese website on US repo flight jackets:

 

http://www.nakatashoten.com/indexmenu.html

 

What I have discovered about Japanese purchasing in the business I am current in as well as collecting Japanese items for many years is that the Japanese culture tends to still equate hight Dollar/Yen purchase with a high quality and value product. While American buyers tend to always look for the deal, Japanese buyers are willing to pay top dollar for a high quality item, no questions asked. I buy a lot of Japanese products and the quality is always beyond what it should be compared to American products, it be a magazine,a model kit, clothing or books but with that comes a higher price. Presentation is important in Japanese culture and products.

 

I can see why these high quality bespoke items are popular with Japanese collectors.

 

Leonardo

 

Thanks for the link L, haven't looked at that site for a while. You are spot on with regards the Japanese desire for quality and craftsmanship, there's a lot to be admired in that philosophy.

 

Will

[redjoshman]

Review of Buzz Rickson's M1941 Field Jacket:

http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Reviews/BRM1941/index.html

 

-Josh

[willysmb44]

I think that this review says it best on the M41 when it says:

At full retail price I would not recommend this jacket and would recommend somebody go with either a 2nd Generation ATF M1941 Field Jacket or a World War II Impressions M1941 Field Jacket as I do not see at least $185 of extra value/authenticity in this jacket. I would however recommend getting this jacket if you can get it on sale or if you could get it cheap on eBay or used off a forum.

[Schrage Musik]

Review of Buzz Rickson's M1941 Field Jacket:

http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Reviews/BRM1941/index.html

 

-Josh

 

Interesting and informative review; well done, and thanks for taking the time to write it! Having been a very active participant in the R&D for this Buzz jacket, as well as being their agent of import and distribution in N. America, I hope it's okay with you that I share my own experiences and insights as they pertain to the jacket, as well as address some issues raised in the review.

 

Firstly, please let me be clear that I’m not writing this in an attempt to make anyone like the Buzz M-41 or buy one or to bash someone else; in fact, if you feel the same about the Buzz M-41 as you did before reading my words, that would be just fine with me. I write this only to attempt to enlighten you with more information about this jacket and what went into making it, as well as to point out some details that the review failed to mention, but, at all times, I FULLY respect the opinions of the reviewer, though I may not agree with some of the opinions or conclusions he reached.

 

It must be said that this is a Buzz jacket made in Japan for Buzz customers worldwide, but it was also made on my request and following my specs; at the end of the day, however, they did things as they did for reasons and circumstances that played out in Japan. This must also be understood with all repro makes, too: We may bash their efforts and pick apart their products, but I applaud them all for taking a shot and financial risk at making anything. What repro makers do is to produce a product they think best fits their market from which they can derive a profit, and degrees of perfection and authenticity and sizes, and fits, etc., are often sacrificed, to greater or lesser extents, so as to fit this concept. It is with all of this in mind that I maintain that the Buzz M-41 was the most accurate on the market at the time it was introduced in 2009 (and it is likely still now), though it isn’t as perfect as I wanted it to be or as anything I make on my own I hope will be in the future.

 

Okay, so this M-41 isn’t perfect – no argument. I fully agree that the lining color could've and should've been more representative to most original jackets (though it conforms well with some originals), while the lining fabric itself is outstanding, and stands as the best copy of its kind I've ever seen. Unfortunately, the sample jacket they sent me had lining color that was fabulous (see the photo on our web site), but the production jackets had a shift in lining color. I don’t know why or how this happened, and in the minds of the team at Buzz, nothing changed, but it obviously did change. If I’ve learned nothing else in my business dealings with Japanese, I can certainly say it’s very often as difficult to get them to admit to errors as it was to get them to surrender in WWII.

 

I gather that most collectors and repro manufacturers have no idea the original lining fabric wasn't 100% wool (cotton was blended w/ wool at a percentage noted in the PQD spec.); this Buzz copy is the first repro, as far as I can determine, to get this detail correct. The length of the sleeve and epaulet is something that may not match an original example that was examined for the review, but it definitely matches the PQD spec. and the original specimens used in developing this repro project. The outer shell is also the most accurate I've ever encountered from ANY repro maker (it follows the PQD spec. and original examples better than other efforts), though I'd like to see it even more tightly woven to block wind and water following the PQD testing guidelines of 1941. The Buzz copy is also the first I know of to have the lining and outer shell manufactured on vintage shuttle looms vs. contemporary projectile looms (shuttle looms would have made these fabrics in the 1940s), but shuttle looms are also far slower and less efficient than projectile looms, yielding fabrics more costly than those crafted on projectile looms.

 

Okay, we used shuttle looms, but when you don’t see the selvage edge, some may rightly ask, why use shuttle looms? The answer is simple – to get more-accurate fabrics! But even though I think the outer shell is the best yet made, my expectations for a tighter weave with more slubs (imperfections in the spun fabric) is something I’d like to see when I produce my own M-41s in the future. The Buzz outer shell, though fabulous, could have been ever better considering what we had to work with.

 

Regarding the NOS Conmar Conmatic zipper, it’s a historic detail untouched by any other repro maker that adds every bit of $100 to the retail price (check out what NOS WWII zippers sell for these days). Whether in brass or nickel, the Conmar Conmatic zippers w/ bell-shaped pullers are, along w/ nickel Talon zips w/ rectangular pullers, the most common zips found on original M-41s, followed by Crown zippers, but this Conmatic version w/ rectangular puller is totally correct, and more common than the rare Prentice and Kwik zips also used in M-41 production of the 1940s.

 

"Farby" care label in the pocket?!?!? Yes, I’d say it is farby, but I'm quite surprised anyone would think to slam the presence of a care label in the pocket as "farby" when they have a NOS zipper in front of their face. The care label is present to comply w/ mandated regulations both in Japan and in the USA (see FTC regulations for clothing) and the manufacturers and sellers can be fined if the labels are not present, so any other repro maker that leaves this detail off does so at their own peril. Frankly, and this is my personal opinion, if you fail to really appreciate the presence of a NOS zipper – something that you see almost instantly and all of the time - you are a philistine! :w00t: :thumbdown: And speaking of things farby and not, what do you think of the data label in the pocket? Does no one notice that this may well be the only repro M-41 on the market to not have a farby label with incorrect spec. numbers and stock codes?

 

These Field Jackets were all derived from PQD Spec. 20 (except the initial run from 1940), with the last being Spec. 20B. And the stock codes are unique to each size, thus size 38R is 55-J-230, while 40R is 55-J-240; well, every Buzz M-41 has the correct spec. number (20B) and stock code printed on each label, yet this correct data is ABSENT on at least one of the “better-value choices” the reviewer endorsed. If you look at the pocket labels from the makers the reviewer cited (I've only seen one of the labels of these two makers), one cites Spec. 69 (huh?), the PQD spec. date of 2/10/41 (that's not the date for PQD Specs. 20, 20A or 20B!), and the stock code is 55-J-225 on a size 40R, which is actually the stock code for a size 36 Long! That’s farby, folks! :w00t:

 

Another fine detail that is not present on any other repro I've seen (and I've not seen the latest, greatest incarnations from some makers, as yet) but is always present on the original jackets: heavy cotton fabric inside the collar layers for maintenance of collar shape and appearance. The presence of this collar lining on coats, jackets and dress blouses of all armies (and civilian suits or other goods of quality) is another testament to how well designed these garments were, and the absence of this fabric is one of those pesky little elements of construction that has always been a telltale sign of a cheap repro and/or forgery (it's been very, very comforting to see this detail overlooked when examining many of the forged German tunics). Those who make repro and/or forgery items tend to see things exclusively from the perspective of appearance vs. function; the latter, of course, being the overriding design criteria of the original item being copied. Buzz doesn't go for look-a-like items and neither do I, so I made it abundantly clear to the production team at Buzz that the collar had to be correctly reinforced to allow the jacket to have the same characteristics of function found on original jackets, thus the feel, weight and look is also rigidly respected. Ensuring that elements of design are adhered to is yet another detail that separates a costume from a genuine recreation.

 

The Buzz M-41 is very costly, no question, If you don’t value it, then you don’t buy it – simple. It’s also very unfortunate that goods made in Japan today are proving supremely costly with respect to the terrible conversion with the U. S. dollar (down 50% in value from when we first started importing Buzz); this shocking reality is exacerbated in the minds of Americans who have been conditioned to buying goods made in lands where the living standard is many times less advanced than our own or that of Japan. Factor in the worldwide economic malaise, and it’s easy to see why things produced in developing nations continue to outperform sales of items made in developed nations. Though the Buzz M-41 performed well enough to warrant a second production of 500 pcs. in 2010 exclusively for the USA and these are now nearly 100% sold out, they will never be repeated again.

 

I'd very much like to make my own perfect-as-possible M-41, Tanker Jacket and Parachutist Jacket and Trousers in the not-so-distant future, but hoping to sell these in good quantities makes it abundantly clear they will have to be made where labor and materials are far less costly than what prevails in the USA or Japan. I will never sacrifice quality or authenticity and I can get both in other parts of Asia, including fabrics produced on vintage shuttle looms, but to keep an M-41 at a retail price point people will step up to purchase (below $200), I’d have to substitute the NOS zippers with high-quality Japanese repro zippers, which are still very costly at $25 each. The good news for those who'd like to see this: Chances are excellent this will happen because I want it to happen and I can make it happen. When this becomes reality, then I sincerely think those who really want that penultimate jacket at a price they can live with will be satisfied. And I hope one of you will be up to reviewing the jacket(s) at that time. Until then, let's enjoy the choices we have to choose from today. Thank you for letting me sound off.

 

Cheers!

 

Charles DiSipio

History Preservation Associates

Toyo Enterprises N. America

Post Office Box 1450

Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-0059

Ph: 856-489-8103

Fx: 856-489-8104

E-mail: [email protected]

http://www.historypreservation.com

[willysmb44]

Charles,

I don't think anyone is ripping on the product, but I do think a lot of people have the attitude of, "Yeah, it's really good, but it's not that good to justify the cost." Many will shell out huge amounts for a really good A-2, for example. There are more than one great Japanese vendor for those as well as some great ones out of the UK, too. I've known plenty of people who've plunked down many Ben Franklins for one of those. But a M-41 is, in effect, a simple cottom windbreaker with a light wool lining. Personally, I can't see myself putting down a huge amount on one, regardless of how well it's made, and I think many other share that mindset.

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

The initial run of any product is costly with regard to all of the design, planning, sourcing, manufacture, advertising and shipping. It's just purely expensive. I have run businesses while trying to introduce a new product to a market and having to consider the cost versus net profit.

 

There are several avenues of approach:

 

One is to divide the cost of production by the amount of the product being offered.

 

The other is to consider market variables like quality, reputation, and of course competition pricing.

 

The last is to consider the quantity of likely sales in the total market place and try to offer competetive pricing while touting a superior product.

 

Buzz Rickson has a reputation for offering nice products, but at a very premium price. The market for their M-41 reproduction is primarily reenactors, collectors, and museums- items that would be displayed or worn as period examples. Reenactors have several venues to get the most common outer jacket used by the US Forces during WWII. I have seen ATF really improve their M-41 and Tanker, and of course WWII Impressions makes excellent products. WPG sells reputable products as well. Within the US all of these companies are well known and competetive with each other within the window of realistic pricing.

 

The Buzz Rickson M-41 cost is similar to what you could spend on some originals. I would need to examine the quality of the jacket to get an actual opinion on the jacket. It looks good and looks similar to any other M-41 repro out there. The price is prohibitive in as much as I could get one, two or even three jackets from other sources for the price of one Buzz Rickson "on sale" jacket.

 

I am curious as to the quality though. Everyone likes the feel of an original M-41. They are tight in weave and the liners are very sturdy and thick. Have only seen a couple of repro's that feel like them.

 

Rock

[Filthy]

Personaly I have new ATF M-41 and I'm happy with it...

I prefer destroyed in reenactment repro of M41 at 140$ to one at 350$

 

For 350$ i can used 2 M41 at 140$...