Vietnam Navy SEAL Team 1 Group

[HBT]

I originally posted this uniform group in the excellent "favorite/rare uniforms" post. Per ADMIN request, I created this separate post with additional pics of some of the insignia and more description.

 

The veteran (Gary R Smith) served multiple tours with SEAL Team 1 in Vietnam, with 257 combat missions. During these tours, he was a LDNN (Vietnamese SEAL) instructor, a PRU Advisor (Operation Phoenix), and a SEAL operator with X-Ray Platoon, etc.

 

Gary R Smith has authored/co-authored several non-fiction books describing his Vietnam experiences. Some of these titles include Death In The Jungle, Death In The Delta, Master Chief, etc.

 

His coral shoes are 1969 dated. Gary mentions using them in his first book (Death In The Jungle) during river watch operations, where he was the designated swimmer that swam out in his coral creepers and duck feet to retrieve shot up enemy sampans to collect intellegence.

 

The short sleeve jungle jacket w/ the LDNN pocket hanger is what Gary would have worn while he was a Vietnamese SEAL instructor.

 

This set of Navy Blues are from early in his career, with a nice SEAL TEAM 1 arch and UDT Patch.

 

As I mentioned, Gary did many tours and brought a lot of stuff home. I have heard of other uniform pieces being in collections. There also several Vietnam era ID cards floating around that I am eager to get my hands on!

 

[HBT]

More Detailed pics

 

 

 

 

 

[HBT]

The plastic on the pocket hanger has started to yellow and the the fastener that holds it to the leather tab is all corroded which I really enjoy! I prefer stuff that actually got used.

[Patrick.]

I am fascinated by the name tapes on the ERDL's, the name on the rear of the trousers is a nice touch also.

[HBT]

His OD jungle pants and OG-107 pants also have his name tape across the back which is not uncommon for Navy stuff. The ERDL pants are poplin (pre rip-stop) and tailored to be tucked into his boot!

 

The tapes on the jackets are theater-made. Probably my favorite is the ERDL jacket w/ just the "Smith" tape over the left pocket because this is more likely to have been worn on operations!

[Sgt. Rock]

Since we are breaking out Navy Seal items, here is my contribution. I am not sure which Seal Team J.C. Naples was assigned to, however, here is his in-theater made heavy cotton tigerstripe jacket. When this was new, it had a round insignia on the left sleeve. You can see where it was taken off and the material is darker where it was located versus the material on the rest of the sleeve which shows fading. Plese let me know what you think.

 

 

A photograph of the famed "Budweiser". I belive this is theater made as well. Again, any thoughts?

 

 

The final photograph of his nametape. Again, I believe this is an in-country piece.

 

 

The primary thrust of my collection is W.W.II. Nevertheless, I do collect Vietnam items. I believe they should be preserved and collected in the same manner. I am fairly good with uniforms, however, any of the more rare items such as this jacket I pick-up from people I trust. I have no doubts as to its authenticity. Do you think my assesment of the nametape and Seal insignia are correct?

[HBT]

I was hoping you would not ask for my assesment of your tigerstripe jacket because unfortunately, I have serious concerns with it.

 

Let me preface what I am about to say by stating that I am not an expert, and the following is merely my opinion. That being said:

 

1. The garment is a commerically made jacket marketed in the US for hunting, begining in the 1970's. As a small child in the early 1980's, my father bought me that same style of tigerstripe jacket from a local hunting/camping store to play in because I wanted to wear tigers on operations just like Magnum P.I.

 

2. The tigerstripe pattern on this garment has never been verified as being used in Vietnam. This is based off Johnson's Tigerstripe book, his news letters, period photographs, other militaria newsletters, camouflage collectors, etc. Based off my experience, this pattern is seen exclusively on post war hunting garments.

 

3. The pocket configuration and construction of this garment is similar to late 1950's through 1960's commercially manufactured "duck hunter" pattern jackets. There is ample photographic evidence verying these "duck hunter/beo gam/ leopard/spot pattern" garments being worn in Vietnam by early SEAL/UDT teams and SF advisors in Laos and Vietnam. However, your garment appears to be a poly/cotton blend and the verified duck hunter jackets are always 100% cotton.

 

4. Although the name tape appears to be theater made, the way it is sewn to the jacket concerns me. I cannot think of a single, verified Vietnam era shirt or jacket with tapes that were hand sewn to the garment. They have always been machine sewn. I would not doubt that examples exist. I just have never seen or encountered a verified example.

 

5. The trident is not theater made. It is US made and the backing appears to be poly blend. Based on my experience, the majority of Vietnam era (US Made) tridents have a cotton "sateen" backing with a merrowed edge. The sateen is virtually identical to the cloth used to made OG-107 utility shirts and trousers.

 

I believe that US made poly blend tridents may have been worn on very late Vietnam era uniforms, but the problem is that they are very difficult to discern from post war examples!

 

I could continue with small details but what I've already mentioned should be enough to illustrate my major concerns.

 

Now that I have typed a bunch of gloom and doom, will someone please add to my comments, either agreeing or disagreeing with them, so that some form of consensus can be made on this jacket. Thanks in advance.

[craig_pickrall]

Chris I have to agree with everything you said.

[usmcraidergirl]

First off I wanted to say that I agree with each one of Chris's points and I just wanted to add a little to it.

 

If you don't mind me asking, who did you get this from? I hate to say but I too just don't have a good gut feeling on this one. I've run into a couple patched Seal items for sale like this over the past year (one tiger and one ERDL) and both of them were not good pieces. In each case, the nametape and the Seal badge had been added to an older garment. Not to mention the one jacket with a more traceable name ended up showing that there was no one that even had that last name in BUDS ever.

 

Anyways, the nametape you asked about. Hand versus machine is an issue too that Chris mentioned. Overall for me, the nametape appears like it was sewn to something else before this particular garment. It seems puckered and the overall wear to it seems like real nametapes I have seen. But, the way it is on the garment does not look like originals that have been on there for awhile tend to look. There is just not any joint wear on the jacket and the nametape. IMO it really appears the nametape was removed from one piece (that likely shared the same puckering in areas where the tape is puckered) and placed on this piece which had not had anything previously sewn to it.

 

Did the person you got it from say how they got it? Do you have any documents on the vet? Also, have you checked on any BUDS rosters for people with the last name of Naples and "J C" as initials? If not, I might be able to contact a friend of mine to see if he still has the BUDS rosters for that period. I will say I've checked my UDT/Seal Association rosters and I didn't see anyone matching this item.

[Jason G]

First, let me say that it takes a lot of guts to put stuff out here for all to see and comment on. I'll be doing the same with some of my things later, and take my lumps too LOL.

 

That having been said, SEALS are a proud lot, and while nearly always looking 'hippie like' in haircuts and facial hair, compared to Marines that is LOL, their uniforms are almost always 'impeccable'. It takes quite a lot to earn that 'Budweiser', and they are damn proud of it. I mention this because this particular one looks like it has been sewn on, almost 'crooked'. The name tape is sewn on with yellow thread, which doesn't appear on the 'Budweiser'; the nametape sew job is not the greatest.

 

Compare the Naples uniform with the Smith uniforms...ANY of them. Look at how good the sewing, alignment, etc, is on ALL of his stuff, and compare them.

 

I am not an expert in cammies, but I've seen enough real world SEALS, Marines, and Soldiers to know that this stuff just doesn't 'look' right, sewing wise.

 

If I'm wrong, here, by all means, pile on folks.

[Sgt. Rock]

Thank you for highlighting your concerns. I purchased it from a private collector in FL. He was on another forum and liquidated his collection. He was a former history teacher. His best items were W.W.II. However, he did have some Vietnam items and this was one of them. I didn't pay that much, and it's been several years. I can live with it being wrong. It just makes me want to throw in the towel. I collected outside my area of expertise, but I wanted an example of a tigertsripe uniform. The guy I bought from said one of the gurus of Seal items in FL said it was good to go. Oh' well.

 

This is what the seller told me when I raised a couple of issues with it. ". . . the SEAL jacket was authenticated by Bill Parnel of the DMZ in St. Aug. FL...the other piece I have not had checked by anyone and if for some reason you don't think it looks right just send it back and I'll refund you no problem."

 

This was back in January '05. A lesson learned the hard way.

[Sgt. Rock]

I appreciate your honest opinion. Thank you. I will post my other tigerstripe pieces in a different thread and see what you all think. I am such a novice when it comes to Vietnam. I really need help. Again, while it hurts to know the truth I am glad you told me. I am sorry for wasting your time with a bad item.

[usmcraidergirl]

Ed, no need to apologize. We've all been there and that's how we learn.

[HBT]

You are not wasting anyone’s time with your post. It can be a real wakeup call when you find out something in your collection is a fantasy piece, but it's a learning process that EVERYONE goes through.

 

Years ago, I bought a German Camo M35 helmet from a friend, and had it in my den for a few years. I decided to liquidate some items and brought this helmet to the Kansas City show. The German dealers were not interested in it, which surprised me, so I asked what the deal was. They kindly pointed out things that I had clearly overlooked with the helmet. Unfortunately, it was a repaint.

 

I was in a weird position where although my friend sold it to me, I had owned it for a few years before knowing it was fake. Rather than making an issue of it, I accepted my financial loss and sold the helmet to another friend as a parts helmet.

 

The friend I sold it to intended on parting it out and selling the shell as a repaint for reenactors, then salvaging the liner and chinstrap. He sold the shell for $90.00 at a gun show.

 

About a year later, my friend saw the same helmet at the Des Moines Militaria Show, but it had regrown a new liner and new history. This helmet was in a dealers display case along with other other helmet from his "personal collection".

 

In retrospect, I should have written “FAKE HELMET” with a paint pen inside the shell before I sold it....

 

Since then, I have taken a pass on many items that were probably good, but I was not able to verify their authenticity.

[Spike]

Actually, Gary never operated with Xray platoon. He was also a Biet Hai advisor at Seafloat. As I collect only VN era SEAL items I have gotten alot of stuff over the years. I have a bunch of paperwork that belonged to Gary Smith, some relating to his PRU tour, some to the LDNN tour and some wth his tour with November platoon, some of the paperwork are copies but I do have a bunch of original paperwork including PRU intel reports and stuff with Nov. plt. I also have copies of alot of his photos and I also have some original slides and photos that I aquired a number of years ago. Hopefully soon I'll learn how to post pics. Chris' Smith collection is very cool. About 10yrs ago I met with a 2 tour SEAL and he gave me a bunch of uniforms including a MINT SEAL float coat, and some jungle jackets with his name and SEAL TEAM ONE strips and some other stuff. I just gotta learn how to post photos one of these days.

Mike

[HBT]

It's great to see you on the forum! I am on the edge of my chair, waiting for you to share pics of your top notch SEAL collection!

 

My bad on the X-Ray platoon. I know Gary was with November Platoon, but I also remember reading about him piggybacking w/ other platoons (X-Ray, Echo, Zulu). I don't know. It's been years since I read his books.