Geezer Posted April 25, 2012 Share #1 Posted April 25, 2012 Greetings from a newby. My first post so if I do something wrong please be gentle. I have a question regarding two Belgium awards given to my brother while in the Army in WWII. He was a member of the 67th Armored Regiment, 2nd Armored Division throughout the war. The 2nd Arrmored was awarded the Belgian Fourragere (a unit award) for their part in liberating Belgium. After his discharge the Belgian Government aslo awarded him the Belgian Knight of the Order of Leopold II w/Palm, and the Belgian Croix de Guerre w/Palm by Belgian Decree# 1577, 1945. They were sent to his home in S. Dakota. Over the years I've contacted many others who served with my brother in the same company, Regiment or Division and none had received either of these individual awards. There was a beautiful certificate with the awards with a brief message in French but nothing to explain why or when he was given these awards. I understand to be elgible for these awards he had to be mentioned in dispatches. Are these dispatches recorded anywhere? I would love to understand what my brother actually did to be mentioned in Belgian dispatches. I have a copy of the "Index of Belgian Orders and Decorations Awarded to US Service Members During WWII" and his name does appear. Thanks for any informtion. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted April 25, 2012 Share #2 Posted April 25, 2012 A very warm welcome to the board. I am sure some board members here will be able to help you out. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFloyd Posted April 25, 2012 Share #3 Posted April 25, 2012 Good question. I've never seen any Belgian award document with what we would consider a citation. The orders citing foreign soldiers must certainly exist somewhere in the Belgian military archives, but I've also never seen one of those (only one of the groups with Belgian awards in my collection contains any paperwork and that's just a copy of the decree and a translation). You might try a letter to the military attache (Brig Gen M.P. Delobel) at the Belgian Embassy in Washington, DC (3330 Garfield St, NW, Washington, DC 20008). Give him the details of what you know and see if his staff can fill in the blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted April 25, 2012 Share #4 Posted April 25, 2012 Welcome to the forum Dave! Looks as though Jeff gave you a big boost in your search for information, good luck! OH......please update us with your progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted April 25, 2012 Good question. I've never seen any Belgian award document with what we would consider a citation. The orders citing foreign soldiers must certainly exist somewhere in the Belgian military archives, but I've also never seen one of those (only one of the groups with Belgian awards in my collection contains any paperwork and that's just a copy of the decree and a translation). You might try a letter to the military attache (Brig Gen M.P. Delobel) at the Belgian Embassy in Washington, DC (3330 Garfield St, NW, Washington, DC 20008). Give him the details of what you know and see if his staff can fill in the blanks. Jeff, I really appreciate the help. I'll send a letter to Gen. Delobel and see what happens. I'll be sure to post the results. Really a great Forum--glad to be aboard. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohn#3RD Posted April 25, 2012 Share #6 Posted April 25, 2012 Hi Dave, Welcome to the board and good luck on your search. Would it be possible for you to post pictures of your brother's award certificates and the awards themselves. I think that would be of great interest to other members of the forum. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted April 25, 2012 Share #7 Posted April 25, 2012 Attached is a scan of the two Belgian medals, which should be identical to those sent to your brother. This pair came with an original Belgian brevet (certificate), which is shown here in two halves for clarity. Chief Warrant Officer Roup E. Clark started his WW2 service as a Master Sgt. in the 28th Signal Co. of the 28th Division. His Belgian awards appear in Royal Decree No. 1577 of 3 January 1946. Clark also won a Bronze Star Medal for merit over July-Sept. 1944 in France and Belgium. His Belgian citation is a little more detailed than usual: "For their brilliant organizational work and for a courageous spirit which has proven to be such a remarkable part of their valor during the battles which have led to the complete liberation of Belgium from the hands of the common enemy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaxe Posted April 25, 2012 Share #8 Posted April 25, 2012 Attached is a scan of the two Belgian medals, which should be identical to those sent to your brother. This pair came with an original Belgian brevet (certificate), which is shown here in two halves for clarity. Chief Warrant Officer Roup E. Clark started his WW2 service as a Master Sgt. in the 28th Signal Co. of the 28th Division. His Belgian awards appear in Royal Decree No. 1577 of 3 January 1946. Clark also won a Bronze Star Medal for merit over July-Sept. 1944 in France and Belgium. His Belgian citation is a little more detailed than usual: "For their brilliant organizational work and for a courageous spirit which has proven to be such a remarkable part of their valor during the battles which have led to the complete liberation of Belgium from the hands of the common enemy." Those are beeeyoooteeeful medals!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinO Posted April 25, 2012 Share #9 Posted April 25, 2012 Same Decree number, would it be a blanket award for service members that were directly involved with the Belgian liberation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederik.geudens Posted April 25, 2012 Share #10 Posted April 25, 2012 Dave, You might want to check with the Association of the Order of Leopold. Their website is http://orderofleopold.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederik.geudens Posted April 25, 2012 Share #11 Posted April 25, 2012 Dave, You might want to check with the Association of the Order of Leopold. Their website is http://orderofleopold.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share #12 Posted April 25, 2012 Hi Dave,Welcome to the board and good luck on your search. Would it be possible for you to post pictures of your brother's award certificates and the awards themselves. I think that would be of great interest to other members of the forum. Regards, John I can, and will post both as soon ars I can get a picture. Thanks for the welcome. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted April 25, 2012 Attached is a scan of the two Belgian medals, which should be identical to those sent to your brother. This pair came with an original Belgian brevet (certificate), which is shown here in two halves for clarity. Chief Warrant Officer Roup E. Clark started his WW2 service as a Master Sgt. in the 28th Signal Co. of the 28th Division. His Belgian awards appear in Royal Decree No. 1577 of 3 January 1946. Clark also won a Bronze Star Medal for merit over July-Sept. 1944 in France and Belgium. His Belgian citation is a little more detailed than usual: "For their brilliant organizational work and for a courageous spirit which has proven to be such a remarkable part of their valor during the battles which have led to the complete liberation of Belgium from the hands of the common enemy." Tom, You saved me from taking pictures and posting--thank you. These are the exact same medals and also the same certificate and Decree # 1577. In fact, I had Mr. Clark's name high-lighted in my book because I was going to try to contact some of the guys that received this same award. I have a list of everyone in my brothers platoon and a few from his company, but none were awarded this--and his platoon went through everything my brother did.(I think). My brother joined the Air Force after his discharge from the Army and accidently drowned after serving in the Berlin Airlift. I was only 8 at the time and never had a chance to meet him, so I've been researching his wartime service without his help. Thanks again, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted April 25, 2012 Dave, You might want to check with the Association of the Order of Leopold. Their website is http://orderofleopold.be/ I didn't know there was an Association--thanks. I'll start there. I have received more information on who the contact in the last 24 hours than I've been able to conger up in a long time on my own. Wish I'd have found this Forum sooner. Hope I get a chance to return the favors. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted April 26, 2012 Share #15 Posted April 26, 2012 On a numismatic note, there are two distinct varieties of the WW2 Belgian Croix de Guerre. That is, just their ribbon colors and palm monograms are quite different. Their earlier type has the "<III>" monogram on the palm, and the ribbon colors are really off-spec. The "red" is more like a tan-rose, and the "green" side stripes are a dark black-green. The later type has true red & green ribbon colors, and the palm monogram is the simple "L". I suspect the <III> monogram was soon replaced, as King Leopold III ended up despised by his people after the war. He was captured by the Germans, and developed too "cozy" a relationship with his captors. His younger brother, Prince Charles, acted as regent in Leopold's place, over 1944-1950. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted April 26, 2012 Tom,You saved me from taking pictures and posting--thank you. These are the exact same medals and also the same certificate and Decree # 1577. In fact, I had Mr. Clark's name high-lighted in my book because I was going to try to contact some of the guys that received this same award. I have a list of everyone in my brothers platoon and a few from his company, but none were awarded this--and his platoon went through everything my brother did.(I think). My brother joined the Air Force after his discharge from the Army and accidently drowned after serving in the Berlin Airlift. I was only 8 at the time and never had a chance to meet him, so I've been researching his wartime service without his help. Thanks again, Dave Tom, After looking more closely at the two different Croix de Guerres, my brother's Knights Cross and Croix de Guerre have the stialized "L" and not the <III> emblem. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share #17 Posted April 26, 2012 Same Decree number, would it be a blanket award for service members that were directly involved with the Belgian liberation? This is what has me confused. It appears there were only 216 men awarded under Decree 1577, 1945. The Belgian Government gave a blanket award of the Fourragere w/colors of the Belgian Croix de Guerre to the entire 2nd Armored Division. This particular Decree doesn't state the unit the men were in but the whole division helped to liberate Belgian and there was about 15,000+ men in the 2nd. Some of the other Decrees do give unit number. The Decree seems to do the same as US Army's General Order for a particular unit--they list the awards presented to the men covered in that GO. But without unit designation, I don't know if they were all from the 2nd. So I guess it does make sense that it was a blanket decree that included the 216 men. Sorry to ramble, I need to do some writing and see if I an understand how this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhund Posted April 26, 2012 Share #18 Posted April 26, 2012 you might have more information about your brother's citation at the following address Le Service des Ordres Service Public Fédéral des Affaires Etrangères Egmont II rue des Petits-Carmes 15 1000 Bruxelles Tél : 02/501.36.61 [email protected] Teufelhund http://www.orderofleopold.be/fr/deco01.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted April 27, 2012 Share #19 Posted April 27, 2012 Tom, Perhaps these examples from my collection will help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share #20 Posted April 27, 2012 you might have more information about your brother's citation at the following address Le Service des Ordres Service Public Fédéral des Affaires Etrangères Egmont II rue des Petits-Carmes 15 1000 Bruxelles Tél : 02/501.36.61 [email protected] Teufelhund http://www.orderofleopold.be/fr/deco01.php Thanks, I'm getting behind on my letter writing (the spring honey-dos are cramping my research) but I will see what they say. Hope they read English because I sure can't write French. Love your name--that's what we call my nephew's boy-he just got out of the Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted April 27, 2012 Share #21 Posted April 27, 2012 Tom,Perhaps these examples from my collection will help as well. Robin: Thanks for showing your examples. Just to avoid confusion, the Croix de Guerre with the blue & yellow ribbon is that of Luxembourg. Its obverse medallion has the crowned "C" monogram of the Grand Duchess Charlotte, who was the monarch during WW2. My references do not indicate that this CdeG was ever awarded with any ribbon devices. The Luxembourg CdeG is a quite rare decoration, compared to the plentiful awards of the French and even the Belgian CdeGs. I've seen genuine examples auction for about $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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