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Norman D. Landing


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General Apathy
16 hours ago, manayunkman said:

In late May 1944 my father was 15 and lived in The Hague, Netherlands.

 

One night he was caught after curfew with a radio tube in his pocket by the Nazi police.


The nazis suspected him of working for the underground.

 

They were actually making radios to listen to the BBC instead of the Nazi fake news.

 

Well they beat him up and an submerged him in the park duck pond in an attempt to drown him.

 

They left him for dead but he had been holding his breath and made it home.

 

His mother (father was in prison after his nazi brother snitched on him) realized that he had no place at home and since they already had trouble enough she sent him to an uncle who had property in the Son Best area and provided more secluded environment to hide.

 
On September 17, 1944 elements of the 501 PIR liberated him.

.

Hi Piet,

 

That's very interesting family history, and lets celebrate his surviving otherwise we wouldn't have heard of his wartime experiences from you.

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

  

 

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General Apathy

.

forum friend Johan's recent Normandy visit. . . . . . . 

 

Here's a photo that Johan forwarded to me two days ago showing a new display at the Overlord Museum featuring a Jeep canvas tilt / roof / hood or top ( referred to as a TOP, in TM9-803 ). Hoping to make a visit myself and see it shortly, might take my original top over for comparison. 

 

As Johan pointed out this is an early top as it has six rear hold down straps designed for Jeeps without Jerrycan bracket, later Jeeps with Jerrycan brackets have five hold down straps.

 

.fullsizeoutput_d267.jpeg.b218456594e9820ba8aa55691aedb06b.jpeg 

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

  

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Simon Lerenfort
On 9/18/2021 at 4:38 PM, earlymb said:

 

I don't think that explains it though :)

 

Very difficult to put an explanation for his burial being in St. James, records show he was hospitalised wounded and later died. Unless it had anything to do with where he was treated then any explanation is lost to the passage of time.

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General Apathy
45 minutes ago, Simon Lerenfort said:

Very difficult to put an explanation for his burial being in St. James, records show he was hospitalised wounded and later died. Unless it had anything to do with where he was treated then any explanation is lost to the passage of time.

.

Hi Simon,

 

thanks again,  yes the fog of war covered up so many details, there is a headstone for an American civilian in the cemetery at Omaha beach if I recall his death is listed as several months before D-Day so where were the remains kept until the cemetery was laid out post war.  

 

Also around eight hundred American soldiers died in the training at Slapton Sands in the UK weeks before D-Day.  They were buried close to Slapton Sands without headstones as the loss was deemed to be a secret so close to D-Day partially to prevent loss of morale amongst the forces intended for the invasion and a propaganda success for the Germans. What date of death was given for these servicemen when they were eventually buried. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

  

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Simon Lerenfort
34 minutes ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi Simon,

 

thanks again,  yes the fog of war covered up so many details, there is a headstone for an American civilian in the cemetery at Omaha beach if I recall his death is listed as several months before D-Day so where were the remains kept until the cemetery was laid out post war.  

 

Also around eight hundred American soldiers died in the training at Slapton Sands in the UK weeks before D-Day.  They were buried close to Slapton Sands without headstones as the loss was deemed to be a secret so close to D-Day partially to prevent loss of morale amongst the forces intended for the invasion and a propaganda success for the Germans. What date of death was given for these servicemen when they were eventually buried. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

  

 

Tec5 Miglionico.jpg

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Simon Lerenfort

Those whose bodies fortunate enough to be found got the death date as April 28th 1944. Many others are listed as KIA and buried at sea. John A. Miglionico was on LST 507.

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General Apathy
1 hour ago, Simon Lerenfort said:

Those whose bodies fortunate enough to be found got the death date as April 28th 1944. Many others are listed as KIA and buried at sea. John A. Miglionico was on LST 507.

.

Hi Simon,

 

thanks once again for the further information.

 

The parental home of my girlfriend in the late 90's / 2006 was on the banks of the river Dart in Devon, where the LST-289 moored after serious damage caused by the German torpedo-boats that caught the practise invasion convoy by surprise.  

 

The camera would have been virtually on their land or garden when these photos were taken.

 

The river Dart was heavily used in WWII by the British navy and there is a Naval College there.  Over behind the moored LST is a small pier from which clandestine naval operations were launched towards France landing supplies for the resistance groups. 

 

.01_LST-289-1-1024x802.jpg.6b486a67f7f7ffd2ff4b222475dad5bc.jpg

 

 

.1528303763274.jpg.87865f3711cd21d6d4ebbf8106ae47d8.jpg

 

.Exercise-Tiger-Deadly-D-Day-Rehearsal-3.jpg.1afcee621d25b0278ef45e3d6339eafc.jpg

 

.Operation-Tiger-1944-790x1024.jpg.15c4184711f08a47adab37c3f4a2845b.jpg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

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General A:  If I ever make it to Normandie, I’d like to visit the Oise-Aisne Cemetery.  I have a Great Uncle (Monroe Suggs) who died 7/26/18, along with 162 other members of the 167th Alabama Regiment, during the Battle of Croix Rouge Farm, Second Battle of the Marne.  How far is that cemetery from Normandie?  

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Johan Willaert
36 minutes ago, BryanJ said:

General A:  If I ever make it to Normandie, I’d like to visit the Oise-Aisne Cemetery.  I have a Great Uncle (Monroe Suggs) who died 7/26/18, along with 162 other members of the 167th Alabama Regiment, during the Battle of Croix Rouge Farm, Second Battle of the Marne.  How far is that cemetery from Normandie?  

 

It's about a 4 to 5 hour drive

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Normandy+American+Cemetery+and+Memorial,+Rte+du+Cimetiere+Americain,+14710+Colleville-sur-Mer,+Frankrijk/Oise-Aisne+American+Cemetery,+D2,+02130+Seringes-et-Nesles,+Frankrijk/@48.9966113,-0.901507,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x480ba820276aa5db:0x85f59b047f230905!2m2!1d-0.8554059!2d49.3592091!1m5!1m1!1s0x47e8fc4cd2feb4fd:0x2ba7a96ffc86ac14!2m2!1d3.548214!2d49.2021247

 

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General Apathy
3 hours ago, BryanJ said:

General A:  If I ever make it to Normandie, I’d like to visit the Oise-Aisne Cemetery.  I have a Great Uncle (Monroe Suggs) who died 7/26/18, along with 162 other members of the 167th Alabama Regiment, during the Battle of Croix Rouge Farm, Second Battle of the Marne.  How far is that cemetery from Normandie?  

 

2 hours ago, Johan Willaert said:

.

Hi Johan,

 

Thanks for answering BryanJ's question for him, I would also add if that it would be best to visit over here during the months of maximum daylight to make the most of the days, if and when travelling some of the distances mentioned, and spending time in museums and cemeteries etc.

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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8 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

forum friend Johan's recent Normandy visit. . . . . . . 

 

Here's a photo that Johan forwarded to me two days ago showing a new display at the Overlord Museum featuring a Jeep canvas tilt / roof / hood or top ( referred to as a TOP, in TM9-803 ). Hoping to make a visit myself and see it shortly, might take my original top over for comparison. 

 

As Johan pointed out this is an early top as it has six rear hold down straps designed for Jeeps without Jerrycan bracket, later Jeeps with Jerrycan brackets have five hold down straps.

 

.fullsizeoutput_d267.jpeg.b218456594e9820ba8aa55691aedb06b.jpeg 

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

  

I will never get tired of being amazed at the attention to detail that you folks can dig out of a photo like this.  5 straps?  6 straps?  I had to go back just to see what straps never the less how many!  Love it!  

 

Mikie

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3 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi Simon,

 

thanks once again for the further information.

 

The parental home of my girlfriend in the late 90's / 2006 was on the banks of the river Dart in Devon, where the LST-289 moored after serious damage caused by the German torpedo-boats that caught the practise invasion convoy by surprise.  

 

The camera would have been virtually on their land or garden when these photos were taken.

 

The river Dart was heavily used in WWII by the British navy and there is a Naval College there.  Over behind the moored LST is a small pier from which clandestine naval operations were launched towards France landing supplies for the resistance groups. 

 

.01_LST-289-1-1024x802.jpg.6b486a67f7f7ffd2ff4b222475dad5bc.jpg

 

 

.1528303763274.jpg.87865f3711cd21d6d4ebbf8106ae47d8.jpg

 

.Exercise-Tiger-Deadly-D-Day-Rehearsal-3.jpg.1afcee621d25b0278ef45e3d6339eafc.jpg

 

.Operation-Tiger-1944-790x1024.jpg.15c4184711f08a47adab37c3f4a2845b.jpg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 21  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

Wow! 

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General Apathy
3 hours ago, mikie said:

I will never get tired of being amazed at the attention to detail that you folks can dig out of a photo like this.  5 straps?  6 straps?  I had to go back just to see what straps never the less how many!  Love it!  

 

Mikie

.

Hi Mikie,

 

As you have shown interest in the differences in design of the earlier and later 6 & 5 strap Jeep tops, then here's a little more detail gleaned from the three different pattern of tops in these three photos, you may be more confused by the end . . . . . .  

 

This is no-where a definitive statement as it opens as many questions as it provides evidence for possible answers. I am just highlighting the differences of the three different patterns or manufacturers. ( Don't shoot the messenger

 

Photo #1.  this is definitely the earliest of the three as it has six straps for the early model Jeeps without Jerrycan brackets fitted.  It features the use of a cellulose finish fake-leather edging trim around all edges of the top, sides and window.  ( this edging trim with the brand name ' Rexine ' was a British invented material in the 1920's for the auto industry used for seats, door and dash trims )

 

Photo #2. continues with the use of the Rexine edging but around the top edges only, the rear vertical edges and across the rear bottom are simply folded back and stitched in place, this may have been a method of conserving the Rexine material, or just a more economical way of manufacturing the top, as long as it fulfilled it's requirements of use. This is a five strap model for Jeeps with Jerrycan fixtures. 

 

Photo #3. This pattern does not use Rexine at all, the edging is woven web / or woven tape sewn around all edges in a similar way to the first Rexine seen in photo #1.  This is obviously a much cheaper edging material than the cellulose coated Rexine edging, would that be the reason for its use.  This is a five strap model for Jeeps with Jerrycan fixtures. 

 

Obviously several manufacturers made tops for the 650,000 Jeeps produced during WWII, which might be the reason that there are differently constructed tops. There is on-going debate in the Jeeping community as to which style or pattern if any were Willys or Ford supplied.  As the parts were all interchangeable then the parts may well have been transferred between Willys and Ford during the war due to necessity without any thought of originality that collectors now desire. 

 

.fullsizeoutput_d306.jpeg.dd0aa7e24105afd5bf3b502941d714d7.jpeg

 

.fullsizeoutput_d304.jpeg.01322119b239dce28917659706f6cb83.jpeg

 

.fullsizeoutput_d303.jpeg.4604254bf32a54a0e2548cb5cf1d643f.jpeg

 

fullsizeoutput_d2e2.jpeg.d70073590ace0dc58a9d9478bf243e46.jpegfullsizeoutput_d2e3.jpeg.82a5411ff890e92559ea7665fe1973e7.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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General Apathy
3 hours ago, mikie said:

Wow! 

.

Hi Mikie,

 

another one of those weird moments just occurred, as I was reading your ' WOW ' comment, the word ' WOW ' was just said on the radio at the same moment. It probably was a WOW moment for all the inhabitants that saw the damage to it when it was moored there. I never met Sue's parents to ask if they had seen the LST during the war as they had passed away when I knew Sue. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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3 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi Mikie,

 

another one of those weird moments just occurred, as I was reading your ' WOW ' comment, the word ' WOW ' was just said on the radio at the same moment. It probably was a WOW moment for all the inhabitants that saw the damage to it when it was moored there. I never met Sue's parents to ask if they had seen the LST during the war as they had passed away when I knew Sue. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

Ha! Happened to me a while back. I was at a red light when I noticed the cross street was Darryl Avenue. Just 2 seconds later a commercial started playing on the radio. One of the characters in the ad was named Darryl.

Mikie

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3 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi Mikie,

 

As you have shown interest in the differences in design of the earlier and later 6 & 5 strap Jeep tops, then here's a little more detail gleaned from the three different pattern of tops in these three photos, you may be more confused by the end . . . . . .  

 

This is no-where a definitive statement as it opens as many questions as it provides evidence for possible answers. I am just highlighting the differences of the three different patterns or manufacturers. ( Don't shoot the messenger

 

Photo #1.  this is definitely the earliest of the three as it has six straps for the early model Jeeps without Jerrycan brackets fitted.  It features the use of a cellulose finish fake-leather edging trim around all edges of the top, sides and window.  ( this edging trim with the brand name ' Rexine ' was a British invented material in the 1920's for the auto industry used for seats, door and dash trims )

 

Photo #2. continues with the use of the Rexine edging but around the top edges only, the rear vertical edges and across the rear bottom are simply folded back and stitched in place, this may have been a method of conserving the Rexine material, or just a more economical way of manufacturing the top, as long as it fulfilled it's requirements of use. This is a five strap model for Jeeps with Jerrycan fixtures. 

 

Photo #3. This pattern does not use Rexine at all, the edging is woven web / or woven tape sewn around all edges in a similar way to the first Rexine seen in photo #1.  This is obviously a much cheaper edging material than the cellulose coated Rexine edging, would that be the reason for its use.  This is a five strap model for Jeeps with Jerrycan fixtures. 

 

Obviously several manufacturers made tops for the 650,000 Jeeps produced during WWII, which might be the reason that there are differently constructed tops. There is on-going debate in the Jeeping community as to which style or pattern if any were Willys or Ford supplied.  As the parts were all interchangeable then the parts may well have been transferred between Willys and Ford during the war due to necessity without any thought of originality that collectors now desire. 

 

.fullsizeoutput_d306.jpeg.dd0aa7e24105afd5bf3b502941d714d7.jpeg

 

.fullsizeoutput_d304.jpeg.01322119b239dce28917659706f6cb83.jpeg

 

.fullsizeoutput_d303.jpeg.4604254bf32a54a0e2548cb5cf1d643f.jpeg

 

fullsizeoutput_d2e2.jpeg.d70073590ace0dc58a9d9478bf243e46.jpegfullsizeoutput_d2e3.jpeg.82a5411ff890e92559ea7665fe1973e7.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

Thanks for the education on jeep tops. I'm sure I will amaze friends and family with my newfound knowledge. Hey, it could happen.

Mikie

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Simon Lerenfort

Do you think the absence of the "warning left hand drive" notice on the Overloon jeep canvas might imply it was not driven in UK during the war and perhaps got shipped straight into the ETO or has it just worn off? How standard was the practice of using this notice?

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General Apathy
5 hours ago, mikie said:

Thanks for the education on jeep tops. I'm sure I will amaze friends and family with my newfound knowledge. Hey, it could happen.

Mikie

.

Hi Mikie,

 

sometimes we can be a mine of useless information . . . . . . . . . . . . :lol:

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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General Apathy
22 minutes ago, Simon Lerenfort said:

Do you think the absence of the "warning left hand drive" notice on the Overlord jeep canvas might imply it was not driven in UK during the war and perhaps got shipped straight into the ETO or has it just worn off? How standard was the practice of using this notice?

.

Hi Simone,

 

apologies Simone I had three shots from Johan to choose from and in the one I used it was easier to see the six straps, but a bad angle for seeing the ' caution left-hand drive ' notice, and it's more evident in this shot.

 

.IMG_5950.jpeg.679dca65dff64c6691464758dfc7a9e7.jpeg

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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Simon Lerenfort
3 hours ago, General Apathy said:

.

Hi Simone,

 

apologies Simone I had three shots from Johan to choose from and in the one I used it was easier to see the six straps, but a bad angle for seeing the ' caution left-hand drive ' notice, and it's more evident in this shot.

 

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

.

That answers the question easily enough, thanks Ken.

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General Apathy
2 hours ago, earlymb said:

Here's my pic of that display, not as clear unfortunately:

 

20200801_141842.jpg.1c023c59fd37b59f72422bf64064e71d.jpg

 

From August 2020

.

Hi Earlymb.

 

thanks for adding the shot that you took, its been a while since I was there so I need to drop along there and check out changes since my last visit, I hear that there have been extensions and changes. 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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General Apathy
12 minutes ago, Simon Lerenfort said:

.

That answers the question easily enough, thanks Ken.

.

Thanks Simon,

 

The second top in the three I added is mine it was recovered from a farm at Mountebourg about eight years ago, it already features some field repairs, and I could say it needs a stich or two now, but as I never use it then its certainly not going to get any worse.  I also have an original windshield cover used when the screen is in the dropped position, it is also edged with the same ' Rexine ' edging, again I never use it so that will remain the same and for posterity.

 

fullsizeoutput_d304.jpeg.c1f6e270a8649481f767b799efaacbf2.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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General Apathy

.

Two Then & Now shots of the tank outside the Quineville museum . . . . . . . .

 

Here's a shot of the the tank when it first arrived maybe two years ago, rusty and original markings. Plus a shot of took of it again on the 19th of September. Some prefer the original look and maybe so as it has battle damage, others prefer the ' preservation ' coating of fresh paint 

 

.fullsizeoutput_d31f.jpeg.cd24c7aa8c8e9868603f22d83f5ee2b3.jpeg

 

.fullsizeoutput_d210.jpeg.172b173ca7adec7168832f3a3fbe4805.jpeg

 

 

Norman D. Landing, Forum Normandy Correspondent, September 22  2021.

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

"  Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes "

 

.

 

 

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Johan Willaert
18 hours ago, General Apathy said:

Photo #1.  this is definitely the earliest of the three as it has six straps for the early model Jeeps without Jerrycan brackets fitted.  It features the use of a cellulose finish fake-leather edging trim around all edges of the top, sides and window.  ( this edging trim with the brand name ' Rexine ' was a British invented material in the 1920's for the auto industry used for seats, door and dash trims )

 

 

It seems the canvas items with the rexine edging (top, half-doors and windshield covers) were a typical Willys MB type thing.
Ford GPW Jeeps had canvas bordered in tan cotton trim, see the top on my GPW below

Another detail is that the top part on Ford GPW tops is made of three parts (two seams) while the Willys MB issued top is made out of two parts (one seam)

 

 

02-Rit-GPW56685-11Jul21 (4).JPG

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