IMPORTANT QUESTION TO DRESS IN A PUBLIC EVENT

[Jamecharles]

Hi all, i've few question about how and what dress in a public event to commemorate who fall for Italian freedom.

Me and few other member of my reenacting team would like to join the memorial day in Florence (ITALY) this year and we are in doubt in wich uniform dress for that event, what is the most correct for this important function?

We are ready to dress any ww2 dress uniform but the question is wich is right?

Blue dress uniform could be ok? what about white dress, white for this kind of event are inappropriate??

 

Tell your opinion

 

GS

[m1.enrico]

Hi all, i've few question about how and what dress in a public event to commemorate who fall for Italian freedom.

Me and few other member of my reenacting team would like to join the memorial day in Florence (ITALY) this year and we are in doubt in wich uniform dress for that event, what is the most correct for this important function?

We are ready to dress any ww2 dress uniform but the question is wich is right?

Blue dress uniform could be ok? what about white dress, white for this kind of event are inappropriate??

 

Tell your opinion

 

GS

 

I'm planning to attend the same event, it will take place at Florence American Cemetary and Memorial. Every year many italian reenactors shows up with different WW2 U.S. Army field/combat uniforms and are really well accepted by local authorities and U.S. military personnel, too...but what about WW2 U.S. Armed Forces service dress uniforms? Any advice?

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

I'm planning to attend the same event, it will take place at Florence American Cemetary and Memorial. Every year many italian reenactors shows up with different WW2 U.S. Army field/combat uniforms and are really well accepted by local authorities and U.S. military personnel, too...but what about WW2 U.S. Armed Forces service dress uniforms? Any advice?

 

Depends on the time period you are representing, as well as the unit. Many of the WWII Vet's I've talked to state that in 1944 when they went on Pass, R&R, or Leave while in the Italian Peninsula, they were their OD Wools. Many wore combat jackets like M43's, M41's and Tanker Jackets- Sometimes they could get ahold of a CIB or have other patches made. Mostly I don't see many in Class A uniforms unless they went to the Riviera Country, there many did dress up.

 

I'd say you could wear whatever you want, despite what I said it's all correct.

 

Rock

[GIl Sanow]

Since neither white nor blue uniforms were authorized then, those would stand out like a sore thumb. But it's your decision.

 

G

[zepher11]

Are we maybe talking about US Navy uniforms. Blue vs. white? Just a thought...

[m1.enrico]

Are we maybe talking about US Navy uniforms. Blue vs. white? Just a thought...

 

We're talking about appropriate army service uniforms, as alternative to field uniforms. Maybe khaki cotton summer uniforms (shirt, tie and trousers) are "better" for the event? It's a ceremony and we're attending as public

[jon prince]

Just my personal opinion, but if it is at a cemetary, memorial or an event to specifically commemorate those who lost their lives, then unless you are attending as an official representative of your countries armed forces, a uniformed civil organisation or have been specifically asked by an appropriate organising body/agency, veterans organisation or similar to attend wearing period military uniform then I would always recommend you just attend wearing smart civilian clothing, suit and tie or at least shirt and tie. Just go and pay your respects, that's all you need to do.

[m1.enrico]

Just my personal opinion, but if it is at a cemetary, memorial or an event to specifically commemorate those who lost their lives, then unless you are attending as an official representative of your countries armed forces, a uniformed civil organisation or have been specifically asked by an appropriate organising body/agency, veterans organisation or similar to attend wearing period military uniform then I would always recommend you just attend wearing smart civilian clothing, suit and tie or at least shirt and tie. Just go and pay your respects, that's all you need to do.

 

That's my same opinion and I sometimes avoid official ceremonies when I decide it's time to pay my respect to commemorate those who lost their lives, doesn't matter if it is Florence, Colleville sur Mere or else.

In fact there's no official request but...but...I see many italian reenactors wearing various kind of uniforms while attending this particular event, every year since at least 2005 or so, then here it comes the question:

Is it appropriate? And if so, which uniform is "correct"?

I'm sure in civilian clothes you're always correct, when you're a civilian attending this kind of events, uninvited...and that's the case

[Johan Willaert]

I see many italian reenactors wearing various kind of uniforms while attending this particular event, every year since at least 2005 or so, then here it comes the question:

Is it appropriate?

 

Absolutely NOT!!!

 

I'm sorry but that's my opinion and the one of many others....

[Sabrejet]

As has been already stated, IMHO, unless you are a part of an accredited and invited "Colour Party", it would be rather disrespectful to turn up in a mish-mash of assorted uniforms. Smart civilan clothes should be the order of the day. There'll be plenty of other opportunities to wear your GI gear.

[Jeeper704]

Unless officially invited to do so, it is absolutely no sign of respect of one shows up at a cemetery wearing GI gear.

Not to mention walking around with weapons! (Seen it several times!).

I can't even believe one even thinks of doing this.

Plenty of other occasions and places to "play army".

 

Erwin

[USMCRECON]

I would have to agree with Sabre , Johan, and Jeeper.

 

Unless

I misunderstand the purpose of the event, it's not a military re-enactment or field event. It's a solemn remembrance event. My thoughts are, if one is not part of the actual event and one's presence in some sort of military ensemble was not specifically requested, I think doing so would not be appropriate or advisable.

 

You could be in danger of appearing to be trying to draw attention away from the event and to yourselves. That's my 2 lira worth.

[CNY Militaria]

I agree with everyone here--it would be a distrepectful thing to do to show up to this particular event in a uniform you did not earn.

[m1.enrico]

I agree, civilian clothes are appropriate. Anyway, see pictures of the event, back in 2005 (the same happens every year):

http://www.awon.org/memorials/florence/florence505.html

[rr01]

I have to respectfully disagree; I think it COULD be appropriate to be in WWII period field uniform. But I would apply a condition and that would be that besides the accuracy of the uniforms and weapons or other gear you bring you are also prepared to be a formation at the right time during the ceremony and not a motley group standing around with your thumbs up their noses when you should be saluting. Whether you wear an American uniform or any other nation's you should be accurate not only in appearance but in deed. Learn the commands of a formation, how to render salutes, either by hand or when under arms. While something like this would take practice, practice, practice what you will be doing is not only impressing those in attendance but you will be truly honoring those who lie beneath your soil.

Of course I could also be way off base here.

[67Rally]

To consider:

USC § 771 - UNAUTHORIZED WEARING PROHIBITED

 

-CITE-

10 USC Sec. 772 01/07/2011

 

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES

Subtitle A - General Military Law

PART II - PERSONNEL

CHAPTER 45 - THE UNIFORM

 

-HEAD-

Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized

 

-STATUTE-

(a) A member of the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard

may wear the uniform prescribed for the Army National Guard or the

Air National Guard, as the case may be.

( b ) A member of the Naval Militia may wear the uniform prescribed

for the Naval Militia.

( c ) A retired officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine

Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.

(d) A person who is discharged honorably or under honorable

conditions from the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may wear

his uniform while going from the place of discharge to his home,

within three months after his discharge.

(e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of

war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the

title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the

President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him

during that war.

(f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or

Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production

may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not

tend to discredit that armed force.

(g) An officer or resident of a veterans' home administered by

the Department of Veterans Affairs may wear such uniform as the

Secretary of the military department concerned may prescribe.

(h) While attending a course of military instruction conducted by

the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, a civilian may wear the

uniform prescribed by that armed force if the wear of such uniform

is specifically authorized under regulations prescribed by the

Secretary of the military department concerned.

(i) Under such regulations as the Secretary of the Air Force may

prescribe, a citizen of a foreign country who graduates from an Air

Force school may wear the appropriate aviation badges of the Air

Force.

(j) A person in any of the following categories may wear the

uniform prescribed for that category:

(1) Members of the Boy Scouts of America.

(2) Members of any other organization designated by the

Secretary of a military department.

[67Rally]

Re-enactment functions are one thing. Showing up for ceremonies and memorial services in this attire on your own, in my opinion, is highly inappropriate. I do realize that the US Code doesn't apply beyond the shores of the U.S., but it is applicable as a guideline for U.S. uniforms.

 

Would you, in the same situation, wear an Italian military uniform (if you weren't a veteran)? If the answer is no, then I'd say that the same would apply here.

[rr01]

Re-enactment functions are one thing. Showing up for ceremonies and memorial services in this attire on your own, in my opinion, is highly inappropriate. I do realize that the US Code doesn't apply beyond the shores of the U.S., but it is applicable as a guideline for U.S. uniforms.

 

Would you, in the same situation, wear an Italian military uniform (if you weren't a veteran)? If the answer is no, then I'd say that the same would apply here.

 

In the context of what these gentlemen are considering I'm going to be more firm in my feelings. After all, the uniforms they intend to wear are all obsolete so there is no effort to mislead anyone about their intentions. There are military re~enactors the world over who dress for the period they are portraying with the intention of telling a story. If these gentlemen dress in uniforms from over two generations ago and do so with the intention of honoring the men who were sacrified for their freedom I will step forward, figuratively and offer my hand in gratitude.

It is even right there in the Title 10 you posted that what these men want to do is okay with all the elected members of our Congress:

"f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not tend to discredit that armed force"

[67Rally]

The stipulation, "an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production" provides the amplification. Also, missing from the USC is any delineation regarding the age or era of the U.S. uniform.

I am not suggesting that the law applies in the situation, as the poster is neither a U.S. citizen or on U.S. soil. Considering that, I look at the situation in reverse. Would I dress up in an WWII Japanese or German uniform to attend a military ceremony?

 

To answer simply...Hell no!

[rr01]

The stipulation, "an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production" provides the amplification. Also, missing from the USC is any delineation regarding the age or era of the U.S. uniform.

I am not suggesting that the law applies in the situation, as the poster is neither a U.S. citizen or on U.S. soil. Considering that, I look at the situation in reverse. Would I dress up in an WWII Japanese or German uniform to attend a military ceremony?

 

To answer simply...Hell no!

Posted all over this forum are pictures of everything from WWII Marines to current era OIF/OEF re~enactments in all sorts of psuedo theatrical situations. Based upon a literal interpratation of Title 10 there is not an innocent person there.

Some of our finest recreations are done overseas. Some of the best flight gear is manufactured in Europe and Asia. Vintage American aircraft and vehicles are meticulously maintained overseas all as a way of recognizing the American contribution to the freedom of those nations.

I might be overly thick but I don't understand your question about dressing in a Japanese or German uniform as it pertains to what these gentlemen are intending. They seem to want to offer a tribute during this ceremony and are looking here for an answer as to how they might do so with dignity.

I can appreciate the ardor with which most feel this may not be proper but in offering my own counter point I am in no way recommending any laws be broken. I doubt anyone wearing a historically accurate Civil War uniform at Gettysburg will be hauled away in handcuffs. We have come to accept these portrayals as a way of having people better understand the sacrifices borne by those before us and I see this effort as being in the same manner.

[Jack's Son]

When in doubt, make the smart decision and wear appropriate civilian clothing. One can never be criticized for that.

[Jeeper704]

"f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not tend to discredit that armed force"

 

What the ... has THIS to do with paying your respect to the Fallen at a military cemetery?

It seems you guys turn every side just to have an excuse of wearing your re-enactor uniform.

Just wear appropriate civilian clothing at the cemetery (unless you're officially invited to attend in WWII uniform).

After you leave the cemetery, you can jump into your uniform and play GI Joe again.

I can't believe there is even a discussion about this!

How times have changed.

 

The cemetery is a place of tranquility, honor, respect ... not a damm playground.

Focuss should be on honoring those young guys buried there, not the clowns running around in combat uniforms (and in some occasions even armed).

 

Is that so difficult to comprehend?

 

Erwin

[USMCRECON]

In the context of what these gentlemen are considering I'm going to be more firm in my feelings. After all, the uniforms they intend to wear are all obsolete so there is no effort to mislead anyone about their intentions. There are military re~enactors the world over who dress for the period they are portraying with the intention of telling a story. If these gentlemen dress in uniforms from over two generations ago and do so with the intention of honoring the men who were sacrified for their freedom I will step forward, figuratively and offer my hand in gratitude.

It is even right there in the Title 10 you posted that what these men want to do is okay with all the elected members of our Congress:

"f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not tend to discredit that armed force"

The following comments should, in no way, be taken as a condemnation of living history in any way. They are solely limited to the issue being discussed in this particular thread.

 

My comments below have nothing to do with the age or era of the uniform or any attempt to mislead.

 

After reading the above quited comment, I must first ask: Is the intent to create some sort of theatrical event?

 

I'm sorry but I don't see how showing up at a remembrance event, uninvited in military regalia, attempts to honor anyone but those doing so. The event, as I understand it, is a remembrance ceremony for honored war dead, nor a re-enactment, encampment, or any such event. The story of these men, their exploits, and their valor will be well-told by the official participants; that's what a remembrance ceremony is all about.

 

Having someone, or a group show up uninvited to put on a show and tell would, I believe, be highly inappropriate abd in poor taste. If the organizers had wanted a dress-up show as part of the event, they would have organized it. Doing so uninvited would not honor veterans/war dead in any way. What it would do is detract attention from the real reason for the event, honoring these warriors, and focus it instead on the individuals engaging in the impromptu show and tell.

 

Advice/opinions were solicited and I've provided mine, along with my reasoning. Others have different opinions and different motivations.

[USMCRECON]

What the ... has THIS to do with paying your respect to the Fallen at a military cemetery?

It seems you guys turn every side just to have an excuse of wearing your re-enactor uniform.

Just wear appropriate civilian clothing at the cemetery (unless you're officially invited to attend in WWII uniform).

After you leave the cemetery, you can jump into your uniform and play GI Joe again.

I can't believe there is even a discussion about this!

How times have changed.

 

The cemetery is a place of tranquility, honor, respect ... not a damm playground.

Focuss should be on honoring those young guys buried there, not the clowns running around in combat uniforms (and in some occasions even armed).

 

Is that so difficult to comprehend?

 

Erwin

Well said, Erwin,and right to the heart of the issue.

[Johan Willaert]

Advice/opinions were solicited and I've provided mine, along with my reasoning. Others have different opinions and different motivations.

 

Exactly and we see different people from different countries having different opinions which I think is interesting.

 

So please add your opinion and arguments and keep this clean!