Help with USAF SSI

[Doughboy1918]

This is a photo of my Uncle circa 1944-45. I need help ID'ing the shoulder patch. He was with the 435th sqdn., 19th BG in '42-'43, then came stateside to Pyote, TX to help train aircrews. This photo was taken sometime after returning from active duty.-Thanks.

[jim2]

To Me it looks like the Army Specialized Training Program patch. The specialized training program was used to train men in colleges. This is what I found on the net:

 

THE ARMY SPECIALIZED TRAINING PROGRAM

 

 

The Army Specialized Training Program ("ASTP") was established by the United States Army in December 1942 to identify, train and educate academically-talented enlisted men as a specialized corp of Army officers during World War II. Utilizing major colleges and universities across the country, the Army provided a four-year college education combined with specialized Army technical training over a period of one and one-half years to those enlisted men who were accepted into the program. The men of the ASTP were distinguished by the octagon shoulder patch insignia of the program which was worn on their uniforms (shown below). It depicts the lamp of knowledge crossed with the sword of valor -- an allusion to both the mental and physical capabilities of these specialized officers-in-training. ASTP soldiers were to serve as Army officers in both the successful prosecution of the war and the restoration of civilian governments in Nazi-occupied Europe after the war's end. But due to the impending invasion of Normandy and the need for additional manpower in its ground forces in Europe, the Army disbanded the program in early 1944. Most of the ASTP soldiers were then assigned to the infantry, where they fought in the European and Pacific Theaters of Operation.

[Wailuna]

That looks like the U.S. Far East Air Forces SSI (link here). It was originally organized in the Philippines just before the war, eventually relocating to Australia, and 435th Bombardment Squadron was assigned to it. The SSI was first approved in 1945. FEAF was precursor of the present day Pacific Air Forces (PACAF).

[tredhed2]

ASTP was over by early 1944..... too many casualties, and the students were taken as replacements.

[Bill]

He was with the 435th sqdn., 19th BG in '42-'43, then came stateside to Pyote, TX to help train aircrews. This photo was taken sometime after returning from active duty.

 

My question is if he was in the service as early as 1942 and the photo was taken after returning from active duty (I'll assume 1945 or 46) why is he not wearing any type of chevrons on his uniform? He is wearing enlisted disks (no DIs seen). I'm sorry but something about this photo does not click with me.

 

Bill

[Wailuna]

Okay, after reflecting on these other opinions and some further research of my own, I withdraw my hasty identification of the pictured SSI as U.S. Far East Air Forces.

 

For one thing, I conclude that the worn SSI only superficially resembles the USFEAF insignia. For another, 435th Bombardment Squadron left the southwest Pacific area for the ZI on November 15, 1942, long before the USFEAF SSI existed. Yes, if he served with 435th Bombardment Squadron in Australia in 1942, he could reasonably lay claim the USFEAF patch as a veteran. But the patch he is wearing is not the USFEAF patch.

 

So, what SSI is the soldier wearing? It does look like the ASTP SSI to me. But, as Tredhed2 points out, ASTP doesn't fit the chronology and it folded long before the end of the war; and, as Bill points out, there are other inconsistencies between the uniform and the story. On the other hand, his ribbons do look right for a veteran of 435th Bombardment's southwest Pacific combat tour. This may be just one more case of a veteran wearing an inexplicable uniform combination. This is a good period photograph. We can clearly see what this veteran is wearing on his uniform. We just can explain everything we see.

 

Doughboy, you need some more basic information from your uncle's service record.

 

From Combat Squadrons of the Air Force -- World War II (USAF, 1969):

 

[kiaiokalewa]

Here's another look at the shoulder patch with some imaging enhancements. Wasn't there a reversed colored ASTP SSI? For some reason I recall two different types.

[QED4]

This is indeed a strange one, the design sure looks like the ASTP except for the colours. A lot of people, make the mistake of assuming that a light colour will appear light in a black and white picture and a dark colour will appear dark, this is not true, it depends on the type of film used. Different films see colours (or don't see colours) in different ways, all you can do is compare them to known colours. The odd thing about this patch is it appears to be three colours not two. The boarder, lamp and sword blade and hilt should all be the same colour and the background a different colour. This one appears the that the border, flame, and the part of the sword on the lamp are the same colour and the background another, and the lamp another. I have never seen this patch in any colour other than yellow and blue. There are two versions of the patch, this one and this patch on a large yellow square for reserves. The lack of stripes may simply be due to a new uniform and the stripes not being available or he may have been busted (yes it happened even to relatives). I think this going to be another of the great mysteries of militaria collection.

[Lee Ragan]

My question is if he was in the service as early as 1942 and the photo was taken after returning from active duty (I'll assume 1945 or 46) why is he not wearing any type of chevrons on his uniform? He is wearing enlisted disks (no DIs seen). I'm sorry but something about this photo does not click with me.

 

Bill

Since he isn't wearing any chevrons, maybe he was a Private when the pix was taken. The US collar disc being worn on the left lapel and the ASTP patch seems to indicate he was in that program. Could it be that you have the chronology wrong?

By the way, they have a neat little museum at Pyote, Texas about the old Rattlesnake Bomber Base. I live about 60 miles east of there and if you ever make a trip thru West Texas on IH 20, it's sure worth a visit.

[Jeeper704]

It is indeed the ASTP patch, compare it with the picture halfway on this link;

 

ASTP patch

 

The ASTP existed even in October 1944;

 

Class of October 44

 

Returning from active duty means - in my humble opinion - returning to the US to train aircrews. So that way, this picture makes sense as he returned to the US in 1944 (or late 1943?).

His active duty was with the 435th.

 

Erwin

[kiaiokalewa]

This is indeed a strange one, the design sure looks like the ASTP except for the colours. A lot of people, make the mistake of assuming that a light colour will appear light in a black and white picture and a dark colour will appear dark, this is not true, it depends on the type of film used. Different films see colours (or don't see colours) in different ways, all you can do is compare them to known colours. The odd thing about this patch is it appears to be three colours not two. The boarder, lamp and sword blade and hilt should all be the same colour and the background a different colour. This one appears the that the border, flame, and the part of the sword on the lamp are the same colour and the background another, and the lamp another. I have never seen this patch in any colour other than yellow and blue. There are two versions of the patch, this one and this patch on a large yellow square for reserves. The lack of stripes may simply be due to a new uniform and the stripes not being available or he may have been busted (yes it happened even to relatives). I think this going to be another of the great mysteries of militaria collection.

 

Your right I guess I was thinking about the Yellow Square making the colors reversed

[Wailuna]

Kiaiokalewa may be thinking about the National Defense Cadet Corps SSI. NDCC started out in late 1940s as a sort of bargain basement alternative to JROTC for high schools that wanted to offer military programs but for some reason did not qualify for JROTC (I was in an NDCC unit for 9th and 10th grades, mid-1950s). The colors and shape of the SSI are different from ASTP but the central design is identical (picture clipped from a current ebay listing).

 

This ASTP soldier on campus gives a better angle on the ASTP SSI to compare with the SSI worn by the subject of this thread.

 

Whatever other ambiguities the uncle's uniform conveys, his ribbons (other than being out of sequence) are consistent with the report of his service with 435th Bombardment in southwest Pacific in 1942 followed by service in ZI during 1943/44/45: Air Medal. American Campaign Medal. Good Conduct Medal. American Defense Service Medal. Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with two stars. Distinguished Unit Citation with one OLC (or more?) over his right pocket.

Finally, according to the record, while his squadron arrived at Pyote Field in January 1943, it was "not manned 29 0ct 44 1943--1 Apr 1944." That is five months. It does seem possible that he could have been assigned to ASTP in its waning days. That would account for his being a private and wearing "U.S." brass and the ASTP SSI and wearing his rightfully earned ribbons.

 

This just another speculation for you to contemplate, Doughboy. However, if I were you, I would be looking for service records.

[Doughboy1918]

Thanks for all the input. There are several mysteries about his service I'm trying to solve. My Dad might have his service records but I hesitate to bother him about it at present. My Uncle had a mild stroke last summer and has moved into adult foster care. My Dad is now his legal guardian and is up to his neck trying to straighten out some legal matters regarding my Uncle's estate.

This is what I do know. He enlisted in 1940 and went to Hawaii for aircraft mechanic's school, he graduated on May 26, 1941. He was at Hickam Field on Dec. 7th. He went to Fiji in Feb. 1942, then on to Townsville, Australia. He was with the 14th RS that became the 40th RS, which became the 435th. After he returned to th U.S., he was at Muroc and Pyote. I'm not sure of when he was where. At Muroc he and another guy were detailed to guard the wreck of a Bell jet that crashed into the desert until it could be recovered. In Texas he helped with training.

The photo shown above was from some speach he made at a dinner of which my dad has a 78rpm recording.

At some point he was made a Staff Sergeant but was busted to Private for some reason having to do with his discharge. This comes from my dad. I have his EM service jacket which shows shadows of corporal stripes and a 4th airforce SSI. This is puzzling because the 19th BG was with the 5th. The 4th must have been from his stateside period. I don't know if this is the jacket in the photo.I also have his officer's pattern jacket that shows no shadow of SSgt. stripes.

The final mystery is that in the '90's he assembled a display case with his decorations. He used his original engraved Air Medal and ordered the rest from a catalog that he no longer had. One item was a Purple Heart. When I questioned him he said it was sent by mistake but he displayed it anyway. I have the catalog that he ordered from and he marked not only the PH but also the ribbon and miniature medal too. He denies being wounded though.

[Doughboy1918]

His A2...

[Doughboy1918]

His display. The Air Medal case was made by my Grandfather. The PH really bothers me, he would never claim something like that if it weren't true, it would be out of character. Maybe he felt he had one coming but never got it. There is no PH ribbon in any photos.

[Wailuna]

That's some story, Doughboy, and the display case is astonishing. There is only one way that you will untangle this mystery. You need to see your uncle's records. Meanwhile, I will sit and watch for awhile...anything else at this point would be pure W.A.G...

 

Except: According USAAF history, 345th Bombardment return from SWP was to Pocatello, Idaho (for a few weeks) then to Pyote AAF from January 5 1943 until April 1 1944. It seems as though the logical sequence for the episode at Muroc would have been after Pyote rather than before. The historical record says 345th was "not manned" from the end of October 1943 until the following April, so this could have been an interval when your uncle was at Muroc (or at ASTP, what the heck!) As Fourth Air Force area included all of California in WWII, that shadow 4AF SSI you see is consistent with an assignment to Muroc. End of this W.A.G