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ON EBAY: KIA RCAF USAF Fighter Pilot died in France July 1944 - All engraved medals, two uniforms, patches, papers and LOGS


ajbUSWM
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Just got this mental image of his ground crew greasing him up to wedge him into his cockpit. Sorry, had to share. :)

 

 

Not grease...Crisco.... ;);)

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Good comments all.... Some of it though, such as the possibility he came back to the US, or the weight gain theory, may in fact be valid, but good luck proving any of it - which means that it would always probably stay as just that - speculation, and not the hard evidence which would make most more comfortable dropping the big $$$ in the end.

 

It still does nothing to address Tom's original comment about the DFC engraving...

 

And the Air Medal, I cannot see enough of to tell one way or the other...

 

MW

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Good comments all.... Some of it though, such as the possibility he came back to the US, or the weight gain theory, may in fact be valid, but good luck proving any of it - which means that it would always probably stay as just that - speculation, and not the hard evidence which would make most more comfortable dropping the big $$$ in the end.

 

Good points, Mike. All I'm trying to say is that based on the seller's admission that certain items have been added to the group, it should be valuated on a "price of its parts" basis, rather than a "group value" basis.

 

Of course, someone who absolutely MUST own a fighter pilot's DSC group will pay more for it than experienced (A.K.A jaded) collectors might. And we STILL haven't seen how much original paperwork is in those two binders!!

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Any time a group has had something added to it, you have to look at it with "glasses" on. I have bought some very nice groups that had added items in it. I just took them out after I bought it. I went into the deals eyes wide open, but you have to have the experience to do that. Just because you have the money to buy a group, doesnt mean you know what you are buying, and that is a situation I have often seen. I saw some guy plink down 10K at the SOS for a group a few years ago and he had to ask people.... " are the medals real"?

 

Concerning the engraving.... I dont see anything that says to me that it is bad, I have some AM and DFC examples in my collection that were not in collector hands before I got them and I know people on this forum would question them. It would be nice if these were 100% textbook examples in a hand we all recognize, but that doesnt mean they are automatic fakes.

 

To me the engraving on the PH, looks stranger than the engraving on the DFC.

 

It is easier to fake hand engraving than machine engraving though.

 

And I am with Tom.... I want to see that paperwork!!!!

 

Kurt

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AAF_Collection

Thanks for posting the pictures of some of the documents. I'm NOT saying it is the case with this group but there is a dealer/ebay seller in the UK who produces fake log books,RAF and 8th AF combat reports etc and they do look good,until you start to check the details or put the fake next to the real thing. My point is even the paperwork is not foolproof and I'd want to see it all before parting with that sort of cash.

 

Matt.

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Thanks for posting the pictures of some of the documents. I'm NOT saying it is the case with this group but there is a dealer/ebay seller in the UK who produces fake log books,RAF and 8th AF combat reports etc and they do look good,until you start to check the details or put the fake next to the real thing. My point is even the paperwork is not foolproof and I'd want to see it all before parting with that sort of cash.

 

Matt.

 

 

Back in the early-90s, I got suckered by some really exceptionally well done RAF after action reports. Apparently they were fake... :pinch: I can only imagine people are better at faking now 15 years later....

 

 

 

Back to this group for a second...anyone notice the original paperwork is on "sticky" photo album pages? This means one of three possibilities:

 

1. The buyer MIGHT be lucky and able to remove the documents from the sticky residue on the pages.

 

2. The buyer might destroy the paperwork trying to remove it

 

3. If the buyer can't remove it without destroying it, the paperwork will slowly degrade over time and in less than a couple decades, the paper with this group will be worthless...

 

:crying: :crying:

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With any such grouping, if things have been admittedly added for completion's sake(or any other reason), I fear that in the care of previous and obviously less discerning owners, something else was added. The grouping has apparently seen a few iterations so I would have to assume it has been tweaked for enhancement or display here and there over the past 65 yrs particularly if one PO was willing to court mount those medals. Also makes me wonder if the articles and papers could have been sourced at a later date from sources other than the original flyer. Same with the class A's.

Any nice, tidy named medal grouping could be built over many years into such a large group with representative pieces added here and there.

Just sayin',

Dave

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This was a great example of how the FORUM worked in regard to legitimate question posed with this group! Hopefully we will see some more up close pictures of the group someday.

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  • 2 years later...
Cobrahistorian

Seriously, does anyone know where this grouping went? I'm working on a new P-47 book and really would like to include a 2-page feature on Capt. Deventer.

 

Thanks!

Jon

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  • 4 years later...

I have this group. It is very extensive with two large binders of original paperwork. The medals were never court mounted. When the photos were put on eBay, the seller thought the layout (which looked as if they were court mounted) seemed more impressive. As for the engraving...not sure. No question that all of the paperwork is original. He did serve in the 8th for two months so the uniforms match up. The seller admitted to adding the Canadian medals, the ETO and Victory. Although it is questionable with regard to the engraving, the bulk of this group is legit.

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I have this group. It is very extensive with two large binders of original paperwork. The medals were never court mounted. When the photos were put on eBay, the seller thought the layout (which looked as if they were court mounted) seemed more impressive. As for the engraving...not sure. No question that all of the paperwork is original. He did serve in the 8th for two months so the uniforms match up. The seller admitted to adding the Canadian medals, the ETO and Victory. Although it is questionable with regard to the engraving, the bulk of this group is legit.

Good to know it's presently in the U.S. How about some updated pics for the curious? Thanks - Bobgee

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A few Pics. For the record, I believe the engraving is correct. The DSC and PH would've been awarded at the same time. The AM is classic and the DFC, though not entirely textbook, appears legit.

post-133-0-18946300-1548873898.jpg

post-133-0-93024300-1548873915.png

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