Army Times article: Army is testing new camo patterns for ACUs

[Sabrejet]

Just an observation from an outsider. When the US military wore BDUs in garrison-mode, they looked quite sharp when starched, pressed, fully-patched up and bloused over polished boots. ACUs, on the other hand, just look like ill-fitting pyjama suits with suede sneakers, presenting a rather un-military appearance...IMHO (no offence!!)

[Sabrejet]

[Sabrejet]

[king802]

Ian,

 

I agree. Unfortunately the British Army has gone the same way with the new dress standards. No more rolled up sleeves in summer with Stable belts on show - it's all sleeves down and un-tucked and looks a complete mess in my opinion.

The Grenadier Guards in the Tower of London look a right mess - even the Brigade flashes and parachute wings end up half-way down your arm :thumbdown: Drop in standards :crying:

 

Rich

[Sabrejet]

Ian,

 

I agree. Unfortunately the British Army has gone the same way with the new dress standards. No more rolled up sleeves in summer with Stable belts on show - it's all sleeves down and un-tucked and looks a complete mess in my opinion.

The Grenadier Guards in the Tower of London look a right mess - even the Brigade flashes and parachute wings end up half-way down your arm :thumbdown: Drop in standards :crying:

 

Rich

 

 

I know what you mean Rich...homogeneous multicam "battle pyjamas" seem to be the thing at the moment, possibly the result of deployments from Iraq > Afghanistan?

[J_Andrews]

How about a day-glo orange smock with a big white and red bullseye on front and back? Better still, one of those Middle Eastern "man dresses" with the apron down to the knees?It would be non-gender specific, half way between trousers and skirts and not offensive to the customer base.

 

And berets should go. Replaced by stocking caps. In various colors -- as for berets, or branch colors. Matching leg warmers too, adding a festive note.

[patches]

This just handed to me. The replies on this page are interesting, I always love to know what my fellow Americans think.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/after-wastin...e-patterns.html

[Sabrejet]

They've used "cloaks of invisibility" in Star Trek for years, so if the technology already exists surely the army can develop it for the individual soldier? :wink2:

[THAT GUY]

I was in my college rotc program for a little while and they made eveeyone wear acus, even navy/marine guys. That is the gayest uniform I have ever had the displeasure of wearing. No offense to you army guys but come on! I couldntt blend into.anything if I tried! I did like the cut of the patrol cap.. And some of the boots were cool but I wish they were a russet brown. Sorry, uniform rant over.

[themick]

The topic of the need for all these different pattern camo uniforms developed over the past decade has been a topic of conversation on this forum. (No, I'm not ambitious enough to search the links -- you can.) Check this article of today on this subject, noting the huge amounts of $$ spent on the development, and the conclusions of some that this wasn't warranted. I could use stronger language, but I wish to avoid offending some folks here on the forum. The link is: http://news.yahoo.com/army-5-billion...-politics.html .It's been a very expensive venture with questionable benefits.

 

Steve

 

[dan_the_hun84]

Read this too....I always wondered about those uniforms...I hope they stick with the Multicams. I was in the Air Force when woodland went away..

[SergeantMajorGray]

I want one of those ACH helmets I haven't seen a cover with that patch on it.

[Wharfmaster]

Makes no difference what camo pattern you wear. if you move, you can easily be seen. Anywhere.

 

 

 

W

[gwb123]

Think that's bad... they are talking about creating custom, one time use camo clothing for use on special operations.

 

All camouflage is local. The idea is they take photos of the local foliage and then create a custom print cloth for the operating area. High speed machines will then create uniforms from the cloth and it will be issued before the teams go in.

 

The technology already exists in the hunting world.. this is an expansion of it.

[Bob Hudson]

Maybe they could just make the combat uniforms out of reflective Mylar and it would just mirror the surrounding environment

 

What's needed is for the Secretary of Defense to get involved and do a serious review of this whole issue of having different combat uniforms for each service. SecDef Robert McNamara did that in the early 60's and what followed was 40 years of standardization until the Marines adopted MARPAT in 2003 and the Army ACU IN 2005 - then each service went their own way (and actually the Navy just phased out BDU's with the fairly recent advent of their guacamole greens which are so close to the Marine uniforms that you have to think, "Why bother?".

 

from Armies of the Vietnam War (2) By Lee E. Russell

 

I think part of the problem is that every stateside keyboard commando wears utilities to their desk jobs and they each want some unique style in which to strut around the Pentagon hallways. Maybe if they all had to wear civilized uniforms to work, the services would all get combat uniforms that worked best in, well, combat. Maybe the desk jockeys could get their own camo patterns designed to blend in with desks and chairs.

 

When McNamara got all the services in cotton sateens, it was soon realized that something better was needed in the jungles of Southeast Asia. Instead of convening a task force to do a multi-million dollar, five-year research project, one man with real live combat experience went to work on the problem:

 

 

Those jungle uniforms evolved into the ERDL camo, which begat the RDF camo, which begat the Woodland BDU's, which begat the DCU. Now it seems some of the services can go through that many versions in 4 years instead of 40.

[Kadet]

We actually have the Marine Corps and weak DOD oversight to thank for beginning this mess with the field uniforms. Trust me, the people that have to wear them also think the situation is ridiculous and wasteful. The Army was supposed to be the proponent for developing the next generation of field uniforms to replace the BDU/DCU. Their efforts eventually resulted in the ACU, but the Marine Corps was dissatisfied with the speed of development and the end product. Instead of collaborating and working through the issues, the Marines branched off and developed their own. They also made the pattern proprietary to the USMC so it couldn't be copied. Marine combat uniforms have a small EGA built in to the pattern to ensure this. Even their "rough out" combat boots were branded w/ an EGA so they couldn't be used by any other service. If you look at the timeframes, it becomes clear why the Marines saw fit to do this. Combat operations were ramping up to a fever pitch in AF and Iraq, and the Marine leadership saw the DCU uniform as a risk to their force in combat. However, this precedent opened the door for the other services to do their own thing as well, and DOD let them. The development of the new Navy green/tan uniforms was significantly delayed by the USMC because the pattern looked too much like the Marine pattern, and thus infringed on the USMC proprietary rights (I kid you not). This is the part that I found truly ridiculous. The Navy could have at least adopted the Marine uniforms to keep some level of standardization within the Sea Services...but the Marines wouldn't let the Navy do that. The Navy blue cammies and the USAF tiger stripes are the most ridiculous of the lot. They are useless in a tactical situation, and were fielded solely to ensure that Sailors and Airmen didn't feel left out. Granted, the Navy working uniforms prior to the blue cammies were atrocious and needed to be replaced with something...but come on. The USAF began deploying folks to Iraq in their new uniforms during my last deployment there in 2008. The uniforms were so hot and poorly designed, that the USAF put their folks back in DCUs. The new Navy green/tan uniforms are actually very good, and a significant improvement over the BDU/DCU. IMO though, DOD should force all of the services to adopt multicam for their field units, and be done with it. The Navy can then sort out a better solution for their shipboard working uniform. I personally like the one used by the Coast Guard (solid blue cammie style uniform). I've never worn them, but they look both "nautical" and functional.

[Sabrejet]

The British military has adopted a "one size fits all" philosophy when it comes to cammies. Hitherto, it was DPM and/or desert, issued according to deployment. Now, the changeover to the universal MTP ( Multi-terrain Pattern....in other words "Multicam") is almost complete. I can't envisage a situation where the Army, Royal Marines and RAF would have their own individual patterns. It would be both wasteful and totally unnecessary!

[king802]

The British military has adopted a "one size fits all" philosophy when it comes to cammies. Hitherto, it was DPM and/or desert, issued according to deployment. Now, the changeover to the universal MTP ( Multi-terrain Pattern....in other words "Multicam") is almost complete. I can't envisage a situation where the Army, Royal Marines and RAF would have their own individual patterns. It would be both wasteful and totally unnecessary!

 

Desert DPM is still issued and will continue to be issued. MTP is not widely liked and is likely to get binned - it fades too quickly and looks scruffy as a working dress.

 

Rich

[Sabrejet]

 

Desert DPM

[Sabrejet]

 

ACU and Desert DPM

[Sabrejet]

 

 

British MTP in the 'stan.

[32sbct]

Well the whole universal camouflage thing has been a mess from the start. But saying five billion was wasted is a totally false premise. We have been wearing the UCP ACU since 2005/2006. It is worn Army wide and in Iraq and Afghanistan until OCP (multicam) was introduced for use in Afghanistan in 2010. That represents around eight to nine years of service. The author of the article makes it sound like the Army purchased 5 billion dollars worth of uniforms and gear and never used them. These items have been used hard through two wars.

 

Does he realize how quickly any uniform wears out in a combat zone? Or even in a training environment. The total Army (active, reserve, guard) is over one million members. Who knows how many million individuals have cycled through the Army since 2005. The real money is not in uniforms, the Army needs to replace them frequently regardless of what pattern of camouflage is on them. The real money is in all the gear (rucksacks, MOLLE, vests, cold weather gear, etc.) that goes with them. Many of these items can last quite some time. Kudos to the USMC for choosing one color for most of these items.

 

All that being said, the proliferation of camouflage is a disgrace. There is a law that passed the house and pending in the Senate that would mandate a single uniform across the DOD by 2018. That is a step in the right direction. Current sources point towards the Army moving to all Multicam. If so, I think the USMC will come to regret not sharing MARPAT with the other services. If all services move to one uniform, the Army has to clothe the most service members so what they wear will carry a lot of weight in moving towards one uniform.

 

By the way, the photo shown at the top of that article seems to imply that all that gear is being trashed. However, when hen you read the caption that gear belongs to the 3rd ACR who is shipping it home AFTER completing a full tour in Iraq. So the author is implying the U.S. taxpayer lost money in some way by providing this gear to the less then 1 % of the U.S. population that does all of the fighting? Five billion does not sound like much to equip millions of Soldiers through more then eight years of war.

[m1ashooter]

All of this has been a complete waste of our tax dollars. We know the ACU didn't work very well and is being replaced. The USAF ABU's were a joke when first issued. All you could get was the heavy weight material which is too hot unless you are at Minot or Alaska. Sailors needing cammo uniforms seems a bit odd as well as the AF.

 

The end result is I've got a bunch of ACU molle gear cheap.

[treetop]

I see ACU's every day. I think the design/fit of the uniform sucks. They look like the soldiers are wearing pajamas. I am pretty sure they are not allowed to get them tailored. The thing is- they do a lot of training not far from my home and as I drive by, I can pick them out easily because they stand out like a sore thumb, at least in our local area. They might be great in other areas of the world for all I know. A number of my friends still on active duty complain that they fall apart easily, especially in combat areas. At the same time, I often see troops (82nd Abn) wearing multi-cam and they seem to look a lot neater as far as fit goes and I suspect they might blend in to the local surroundings.

Two years ago I had reason to be on Parris Island SC. The recruits looked a lot "Smarter" in their Marpat uniforms. I have never talked to a Marine who wears them so have no idea how they function, or blend in with the terrain. As one who also collected uniforms (Until recently when I quit) I have both a woodland and a desert Marpat and they are both a lot better- quality-wise than the Army uniforms.

The former Navy SEAL posted above that in RVN a lot of troops just wore OD and they seemed to do OK.

Just my opinion. Also agree Navy doesn't need camo, nor does Air Force or Coast Guard. One pattern for all.

[cefiler]

I thought this was a funny commentary on the current ACUs not melding in with anything.